Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2013, 12:00 PM   #796
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,616
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
The last 2 1/2 years gives a good sample size....
Not really when you consider Mac played hurt all last year and it resulted in him having the worst year of his career.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 12:03 PM   #797
Sarcastic
NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
 
Sarcastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: #KnicksTape
Posts: 22,089
Sarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableSarcastic is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndeeregreen
BTW, the last time Justin Upton had a run batted in was May 25. Which makes 1 RBI in his last 19 games.



Not that I agree with the sentiment, but I thought RBI was not an important statistic anymore?
Sarcastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 12:07 PM   #798
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,616
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Not that I agree with the sentiment, but I thought RBI was not an important statistic anymore?
Just because it's not as important as it's been traditionally doesn't mean it isn't ridiculous for your 3 hitter to not have driven in a run the last 3 weeks. I'm not saying he sucks, I'm just saying for that to happen you have to be both unlucky and slumping.

If I were evaluating that on its own it'd be stupid, but in conjunction with his splits and other 'important' stats since the last week of April, or with runners on base, for that matter, it shows how bad he's been struggling.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 12:15 PM   #799
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,616
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Moreover, why would you limit the SS to the last 2 1/2 years instead of career numbers?

McCann:
.278/.351/.475, wOBA: .354, wRC+: 117

Justin:
.275/.357/.476, wOBA: .359, wRC+: 118

The differences are negligible in every category. Unless you (for some reason) limit the scope of your analysis to include a season where a guy played through injury all year as 40% of your sample size, these guys are neck-and-neck statistically.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 12:26 PM   #800
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,786
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Because what happened 6 years ago means very little, IMO.....guys improve drastically, decline, whatever it may be in a 6 year span.

The last 2-3 years of data gives a big enough and recent sample size to accurately say who the better hitter is.

If we took career numbers or anything longer than that, Pujols would still be regarded as the best hitter in baseball or close to it..... but the last 2, 3 years? His production is much more indicative of the hitter he is now.
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #801
jazz873
College star
 
jazz873's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,802
jazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputation
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I watch the Braves like what they've done. But according to the logic of some these posters and I will not address the name calling stuff at the moment.... I do like Freeman, I have no problems with Gattis/McCann I havent disparaged any of their abilities. Just the notion that the best hitter or pitcher is determined by hot streaks kind of wishy washy. Week to week any no name bum can become a good hitter or pitcher. Quite short sided. You can quantify any player being better that way. Or maybe Uptown just isnt well liked.


I hear ya. I had high expectations for Freeman this year. If you asked me before the season started i would of told you Freeman would have just as good of a season as Upton
jazz873 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 12:44 PM   #802
johndeeregreen
Oh yeah, Mitch Kramer?
 
johndeeregreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,616
johndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterjohndeeregreen is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Because what happened 6 years ago means very little, IMO.....guys improve drastically, decline, whatever it may be in a 6 year span.

The last 2-3 years of data gives a big enough and recent sample size to accurately say who the better hitter is.

If we took career numbers or anything longer than that, Pujols would still be regarded as the best hitter in baseball or close to it..... but the last 2, 3 years? His production is much more indicative of the hitter he is now.
OK, I understand your point, but if you really wanted an objective analysis, you wouldn't use a season where a guy played hurt all year long as almost half your SS. If he'd just had a bad season that's one thing, but that wasn't it. There's a reason BMac was so far below career levels last year. He played hurt.

The last two full seasons each of these guys played healthy (2011/12 for Justin, 2010/2011 for Brian), Justin had a wRC+ of 123, Brian 122. Justin wOBA .363, Brian .356. Same as career: very, very close.

So if you want to argue that Justin's a marginally better hitter than McCann, okay, I respect that viewpoint, but using an injury season to make it look like a runaway when it isn't is just... totally dishonest.

Last edited by johndeeregreen : 06-11-2013 at 12:51 PM.
johndeeregreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 01:04 PM   #803
jazz873
College star
 
jazz873's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,802
jazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputationjazz873 has a terrific reputation
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Rangers fans, will Baker still see every day bats when Moreland comes back?
jazz873 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 01:23 PM   #804
intrinsic
Local High School Star
 
intrinsic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,775
intrinsic has a terrific reputationintrinsic has a terrific reputationintrinsic has a terrific reputationintrinsic has a terrific reputationintrinsic has a terrific reputation
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Hold up a second, if we're talking about who the better hitter is overall.... it's Juston Upton followed closely by Freeman and McCann way behind.

The last 2 1/2 years gives a good sample size....

Upton:

wRC+ 127ish
wOBA .365

Freeman:

wRC+ 125ish
wOBA .355

McCann:

wRC+ 113
wOBA 337


If we're talking the better hitter this year than it's different. Freeman has an extremely high BABIP for a slow runner that will be almost impossible to keep up, so expect his numbers to go down/level out at the end of the year. McCann on the other hand has an extremely low BABIP, so expect his numbers to go up for this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Because what happened 6 years ago means very little, IMO.....guys improve drastically, decline, whatever it may be in a 6 year span.

The last 2-3 years of data gives a big enough and recent sample size to accurately say who the better hitter is.

If we took career numbers or anything longer than that, Pujols would still be regarded as the best hitter in baseball or close to it..... but the last 2, 3 years? His production is much more indicative of the hitter he is now.

The stuff about injured 2012 and thing is, the numbers are close enough to say, I think McCann is the better hitter.

Upton, for all he does great to get those season lines, has almost no approach beyond swing very hard. When he's good, it's amazing just like his april. When he isn't, he's the bossman's april. He swings, and swings a lot more than McCann does. McCann is the better hitter because of that. He can do stuff inside of the game ujupton cant, like put the bat on the ball more times than not hitting it hard. Bill James says an out is an out -- whatever. I don't. Give me the dude who can hit the ball in a favorable direction to produce runs instead of the guy who might be jesus in cleats or swinging it like bj.

And, lets be honest, jupton isn't putting up Pujols, Arod or even Braun #'s. I'm not saying it matters how somebody is actually covering a lot of the plate and hitting GOOD strikes if there's a 50hr hitter like the lol Bautista comparison earlier.
intrinsic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2013, 01:38 PM   #805
irondarts
.
 
irondarts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,451
irondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Gerrit Cole is making his debut today against the Giants.
irondarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 01:20 AM   #806
irondarts
.
 
irondarts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,451
irondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

The D-Backs and Dodgers had a wild brawl tonight.
irondarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 01:55 AM   #807
irondarts
.
 
irondarts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 7,451
irondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterirondarts is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

I was really disappointed when the Pirates gave up so quickly on Stetson Allie as a pitcher and converted him to a 1B. But holy cow, he has been crushing the ball this season and has massive power, he's hitting .322/.402/.604 with 16 HR's and 55 RBI's for Class A West Virginia and has turned himself into a legit hitting prospect.
irondarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 02:06 AM   #808
kNicKz
College superstar
 
kNicKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,968
kNicKz is a pretty well-respected posterkNicKz is a pretty well-respected posterkNicKz is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by irondarts
The D-Backs and Dodgers had a wild brawl tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3v0ZuuOzg

kNicKz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 04:47 AM   #809
raiderfan19
Shazam!
 
raiderfan19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,999
raiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterraiderfan19 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazz873
Rangers fans, will Baker still see every day bats when Moreland comes back?
No. Hell platoon with Murphy and a lil with mooreland
raiderfan19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2013, 06:29 PM   #810
Rose
nanu nanu
 
Rose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 30,457
Rose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableRose is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: MLB Thread 2013

I think it's time for Valverde to go.
Rose is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:04 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy