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Old 01-16-2013, 03:42 PM   #136
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by bigkingsfan
It's made up by fans/media just for the sake of discussion.


What is made up? Intangibles?
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:46 PM   #137
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

I think the "clutch gene" in the NFL is made up...it is a fictional gene


"Intangibles" can be anything
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Old 01-16-2013, 03:53 PM   #138
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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I think the "clutch gene" in the NFL is made up...it is a fictional gene


"Intangibles" can be anything


Obviously there is no actual gene called the "clutch gene". It's a way though to discern which athletes perform under pressure, and which ones don't.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:08 PM   #139
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Obviously there is no actual gene called the "clutch gene". It's a way though to discern which athletes perform under pressure, and which ones don't.
well if you think that some players play better in big games and some play worse, would that not be something found in one's DNA?

we don't need to argue about weather or not it is literally in your genes...I am just trying to say that in the NFL every game is under enormous pressure and being viewed by millions of eyes...and I think for a QB that has been playing 5+ years they are naturally going to be used to that and unfazed by it...you brought up the "John Candy" situation, I think that proves my point if anything. Joe was used to high pressure situations...that day was no different.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:14 PM   #140
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I think the "clutch gene" in the NFL is made up...

I think that's kinda ridiculous. In anything, even in things that aren't sports pressure changes everything. Some people seem perform worse in those situations, some raise there ability, nothing changes for others. Sports really shines a light on those things because there's statistics to back up what were witnessing, where as in somebody's personal life they probably don't have a board where they measure how they performed during times of high stress situations.

Peyton didn't lose the game himself. Broncos gave up 38 points and really choked overall as a team. Defense was terrible, but with that being said Peyton didn't look like the same 'ol Peyton we saw for the majority of the regular season. His accuracy was off all day IMO, and even his arm strength which wasn't there all year looked worse to me. Plus that pick at the end, probably a play that doesn't happen if it's week 14.

Shit dude I notice the "clutch" gene when I'm rocking Madden with friends. In a game that's completely meaningless and is just being played for fun I've seen guy's completely fall apart when the game get's close. I'm usually that guy and constantly get chirped about it .. it's just human nature to react differently in situations where you're on the spot. It's why people get nervous on the 1st date as opposed to the 100th day, more on the line.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:18 PM   #141
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Cowboys fans saying the clutch gene is mumbo jumbo. Priceless.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:19 PM   #142
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I am just trying to say that in the NFL every game is under enormous pressure and being viewed by millions of eyes...and I think for a QB that has been playing 5+ years they are naturally going to be used to that

Why is there enormous pressure? Because fans, the media, coaches, GM are all watching closely. What you do affects you're next contract, how you're viewed by the public etc. among 100's of other things. Those same people raise the stakes in the playoffs .. what is already an extremely high pressure situation(playing QB in the NFL) becomes even more stressful because everybody surrounding the game makes it like that.

No doubt players get use to that, just like I'm sure if you come up short it gets in you're head and becomes harder to overcome. Players aren't robots, 4th and 6 with 15 seconds to go down 7 and they are going to have regular human thoughts, just because their genetic freaks doesn't mean there mentally on another level.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:32 PM   #143
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
so why did Eli play bad though? where was his "clutch gene"?

doesn't he magically turn into a flawless player during "big games"?
He comes through at a higher pct than some other people (like Tony Romo). No one wins all the time. Eli is not that good a player that he would win all the time. However he has a good track record in games that if we lose would eliminate us.

It's all part of the package. You seem to want to argue that winning and losing shouldn't be taken into account at all, only stats. Peyton Manning is so great because he pretty much wins all the time. So looking at his playoff record to differentiate him from BRady, etc. makes sense.

It shouldn't be the end all of discussing player, but to exclude performace in big games in judging QB's is ridiculous, that's the whole reason you get a good QB.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #144
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Why is there enormous pressure? Because fans, the media, coaches, GM are all watching closely. What you do affects you're next contract, how you're viewed by the public etc. among 100's of other things. Those same people raise the stakes in the playoffs .. what is already an extremely high pressure situation(playing QB in the NFL) becomes even more stressful because everybody surrounding the game makes it like that.

No doubt players get use to that, just like I'm sure if you come up short it gets in you're head and becomes harder to overcome. Players aren't robots, 4th and 6 with 15 seconds to go down 7 and they are going to have regular human thoughts, just because their genetic freaks doesn't mean there mentally on another level.
so you think that Peyton's INT came purely from him cracking under pressure?

I don't buy it...sorry

I think he has been under pressure many times and preformed...it would be different if it was his rookie year or something.

I think Manning threw 11 INTs in the regular season, and 2 in the post season...simple as that


why does this need a fcking "gene" to explain it?....hey sometimes QBs throw INTs...it happens
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:36 PM   #145
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Anyone who has played sports knows people who are more "money" than others. There are those who come through and those who don't. It's not genetic, it's belief and being calm and also conditioning. (It's hard to come through if you are going to pass out.) You all know there's that one guy if the ball is grounded to him in the 9th inning, he'll kick it away because he's terrified.

Manning is super fantastic, but it's silly to ignore his record in these moments, it's a part of his record.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:41 PM   #146
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by niko
Anyone who has played sports knows people who are more "money" than others. There are those who come through and those who don't. It's not genetic, it's belief and being calm and also conditioning. (It's hard to come through if you are going to pass out.) You all know there's that one guy if the ball is grounded to him in the 9th inning, he'll kick it away because he's terrified.

Manning is super fantastic, but it's silly to ignore his record in these moments, it's a part of his record.
does it just happen to be the "good players" that come through? lol...what a coincidence

I've played sports...one tackle in a big game will shake the nerves right out of you.

If I suddenly was playing MNF?...yeah I would probably vomit on myself the first time...but after I got used to a stage as big as Monday Night Football?...I think my nervous would have plateaued

lets be real...Peyton HAS played fine under this supposed new pressure in the post season before...
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:49 PM   #147
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Where did Ben's clutch genes go this season?, he ended the year on 2 INTs in must win games.

did he lose his clutch genes?
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:51 PM   #148
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
does it just happen to be the "good players" that come through? lol...what a coincidence

I've played sports...one tackle in a big game will shake the nerves right out of you.

If I suddenly was playing MNF?...yeah I would probably vomit on myself the first time...but after I got used to a stage as big as Monday Night Football?...I think my nervous would have plateaued

lets be real...Peyton HAS played fine under this supposed new pressure in the post season before...
Yes, and he also has played at a lower level that you'd expect a good portion of the time. His playoff record is not stellar, and he's had a bunch of big mistakes at big moments.

I think Peyton is probably the 3rd or 4th best QB i've ever seen but i don't get how you want to push off his underachieving in big games as ok. It's never been ok, it's always been a blemish on his record. QB's are measured by performances in big games. If you don't want to that way it's fine, but you'll have to accept everyone else does.
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Old 01-16-2013, 04:57 PM   #149
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by niko
Yes, and he also has played at a lower level that you'd expect a good portion of the time. His playoff record is not stellar, and he's had a bunch of big mistakes at big moments.

I think Peyton is probably the 3rd or 4th best QB i've ever seen but i don't get how you want to push off his underachieving in big games as ok. It's never been ok, it's always been a blemish on his record. QB's are measured by performances in big games. If you don't want to that way it's fine, but you'll have to accept everyone else does.
go look at his personal performances in the playoffs...it is almost identical to Brady's

Brady has ONE LESS INT....big fckin deal


Brady post season:

23 games
comp% : 62.9%
TDs: 41
INTs: 20
rating: 89.1

Peyton post season:

20 games
comp% : 63.2%
TDs: 32
INTs: 21
rating: 88.4



how they have played on a personal level is near identical...all you are seeing is wins and loses which is a TEAM STAT...
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:43 PM   #150
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

PT you and pauk should talk. Fans of Tony romo and Lebron James.

Watching Dirk versus lebron in 2011 should tell you all you need to know about the clutch gene.. One mentally collapsed while the other had a mind of steel.
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