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Old 01-16-2013, 04:46 PM   #151
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
PT you and pauk should talk. Fans of Tony romo and Lebron James.

Watching Dirk versus lebron in 2011 should tell you all you need to know about the clutch gene.. One mentally collapsed while the other had a mind of steel.
yeah and before that Dirk was the Tony Romo of the NBA...he was known as the biggest choker in the league

I guess his clutch gene developed late

I hope that happens to Tony's clutch gene
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:15 PM   #152
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
yeah and before that Dirk was the Tony Romo of the NBA...he was known as the biggest choker in the league

I guess his clutch gene developed late

I hope that happens to Tony's clutch gene

No. Dirk wasn't the Tony Romo of the NBA, Dirk was a top 10 player in the NBA this past decade with success in the regular season and post season. The only choke that Dirk was known for was the playoff series against Golden state which I think was a terrible match-up for Dirk. Other than that series he's still had alot of postseason success
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:21 PM   #153
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by knickballer
No. Dirk wasn't the Tony Romo of the NBA, Dirk was a top 10 player in the NBA this past decade with success in the regular season and post season. The only choke that Dirk was known for was the playoff series against Golden state which I think was a terrible match-up for Dirk. Other than that series he's still had alot of postseason success
bullshit...Dirk was labeled a choker well before that...the 2006 Finals everyone called him a choker...I spent years in the NBA forum defending him lol.

Dirk was labeled a choker pretty much every year the Mavs lost up till they won a ring...

people wanted Dirk to give back his MVP...

all THE EXACT SAME SHIT you hear about Romo today was said about Dirk then..."he can't win the big game, chokes under pressure, etc etc etc"



It's funny how rings erase people's memories of the past
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:47 PM   #154
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
bullshit...Dirk was labeled a choker well before that...the 2006 Finals everyone called him a choker...I spent years in the NBA forum defending him lol.

Dirk was labeled a choker pretty much every year the Mavs lost up till they won a ring...

people wanted Dirk to give back his MVP...

all THE EXACT SAME SHIT you hear about Romo today was said about Dirk then..."he can't win the big game, chokes under pressure, etc etc etc"



It's funny how rings erase people's memories of the past

No, he won. So people said that Dirk is now no longer a choker. No one has rewrote that 2006 series, it's always either the Mavs choked or the refs suck.

It's like Eli, no one in NY says the first four years Eli was great. It was Eli came of age that one year. Players improve and change. If Romo wins the Super Bowl, it doesn't mean him chocking away those previous opportunities never happened. It means he changed. Like Eli did.

To validate someone as a great QB you need regular season success, good stats, and finally postseason success. The way you talk, you only really need the good stats.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #155
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
yeah and before that Dirk was the Tony Romo of the NBA...he was known as the biggest choker in the league

I guess his clutch gene developed late

I hope that happens to Tony's clutch gene

Romo is like a Rudy gay talent in the nba. Borderline all star material. Dirk was a full fledged superstar despite that choking label.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:44 PM   #156
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

it really doesn't matter if Dirk was better in the NBA before the ring than Romo is in the NFL...the fact remains that everyone said THE EXACT SAME SHIT. Just to be a "choker" implies that you are "should have won"...It isn't like people viewed Romo as some scrub QB, he is still a 3x Probowler, that is def good enough for a comparison.

Dirk was viewed as top-10ish before the ring in a league that is 5x smaller than the NFL

Romo is a top-10 QB...


it is a fair comparison
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:08 PM   #157
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Just because you've choked in the past doesn't mean you will always be a choker. Players can learn to be better in the clutch. How does the MJ commercial go? "My team has counted on me X number of times, and I have let them down...yada yada yada...and that is why I succeed."
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:30 PM   #158
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Of course the Cowboys fan doesn't believe in clutchness...

It all makes sense now
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #159
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

yeah, I said in here (my first post in here I think) that due to being a Cowboy's fan I have been forced to think about this subject a lot. (and Mav's fan pre-ring)

It isn't a Romo excuse, it's not like Romo sucking in a game because of a supposed magic "clutch gene" or because he just sucked because sometimes he just sucks is any different in terms of looking bad lol.

trying to keep this about Peyton though due to the fact that is the subject of the thread...
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:49 PM   #160
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
yeah, I said in here (my first post in here I think) that due to being a Cowboy's fan I have been forced to think about this subject a lot. (and Mav's fan pre-ring)

It isn't a Romo excuse, it's not like Romo sucking in a game because of a supposed magic "clutch gene" or because he just sucked because sometimes he just sucks is any different in terms of looking bad lol.

trying to keep this about Peyton though due to the fact that is the subject of the thread...

I just don't know how you can refuse to acknowledge the idea that certain players more times than not are able to keep their calm/focus/wit and perform at their best in pressure-packed moments while others cannot. Its apparent.

But I digress, like you said this thread is about Peyton. And my opinion on him is that he is probably the best regular season QB of all time. Arguably the greatest signal-caller of this era. But he is not in GOAT talks simply due to his shockingly mediocre postseason record.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:26 PM   #161
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
It's really a question without an answer. Manning has three MVP awards, but just one Super Bowl win. Brady has three Super Bowl wins, and just one MVP.

We'd argue to no conclusion if we started to debate the Manning-vs.-Brady merits. So NBC posed the question to the 20 living quarterbacks enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

The results? Manning, in a landslide.

The Colts QB garnered 13.5 votes to Brady's 2.5, with four abstentions. Joe Montana split his vote between the two.

Among the comments NBC's Andrea Kremer collected from the Hall of Famers:
"How can you choose between Rembrandt and Van Gogh?" -- Steve Young
"I love them both, but if you put a gun to my head and said which one do you choose, I'd say Peyton. Peyton has not had the players around him that Brady has had, but Peyton is a coach on and off the field." -- Fran Tarkenton
"Great stats are important, but the most important aspect is winning. That is all anyone remembers." -- Terry Bradshaw
"I like Brady, but if I was starting a team I would take Peyton Manning." -- George Blanda

.....and here is what happened since that voting

Peyton Manning:

3 first team all pro selections
1 MVP (possibly 2)
Superbowl Appearance


Tom Brady:

1 All Pro team
1 MVP
Superbowl Appearance
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:20 PM   #162
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Just because you've choked in the past doesn't mean you will always be a choker. Players can learn to be better in the clutch. How does the MJ commercial go? "My team has counted on me X number of times, and I have let them down...yada yada yada...and that is why I succeed."
Peyton has been choking since high school. Dude has never won a championship in anything outside of 2006 where his D bailed him out.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:41 AM   #163
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

How many points did the Broncos put on the board last game?


At some point the defense needs to held accountable.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:57 AM   #164
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I don't think a seasoned vet feels any differently from game to game...there is tons on the line in every game

you really think that Peyton was suddenly nervous in the 2nd OT?...I don't

Part of it is psychological. Maybe it's overthinking or folding under pressure or self doubt or nerves or putting too much pressure on yourself to perform in a certain situation. Self doubt can creep in there in pressure situations. Some are never really comfortable in those situations and they make blunders they normally wouldn't. It doesn't mean they will always choke in those situations just that they're more likely to (unless they can overcome whatever it is). You could be considered 'clutch' and then turn into a 'choker'. For some people it's downhill after the first time they fold under pressure. Some rebound and redeem themselves.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:00 AM   #165
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
it really doesn't matter if Dirk was better in the NBA before the ring than Romo is in the NFL...the fact remains that everyone said THE EXACT SAME SHIT. Just to be a "choker" implies that you are "should have won"...It isn't like people viewed Romo as some scrub QB, he is still a 3x Probowler, that is def good enough for a comparison.

Dirk was viewed as top-10ish before the ring in a league that is 5x smaller than the NFL

Romo is a top-10 QB...


it is a fair comparison

you realize that the foundation of your argument is basically anecdotal nonsense? if you are going to spend time arguing on the internet, basically anybody will argue that a given nba/nfl player is a choker.

yes people call dirk a choker and people call romo a choker, the fact that people on the internet have accused both men of being chokers means nothing.

peyton manning is a much better comparison to dirk than tony romo imo. manning and dirk are both chokers who have both put up almost unheard of monster stats, and both spent time in the discussion for #1 overall best player at their respective sport. manning and dirk also have championship rings, something romo will never have.

tony romo is much more in the vein of a tracy mcgrady or vince carter style choker. the guy is supposed to be good according to espn, and maybe flashes greatness every now and then, maybe for a season or two he is a top 10 player in the league...... but we all know he will never have real playoff success.

Last edited by Nanners : 01-17-2013 at 03:04 AM.
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