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Old 01-13-2013, 03:19 PM   #31
Carbine
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Almst no one talks about these things, analysts generaqlly just discuss how great he is. You are mentioning things people generally don't care about. Case in point:


No one knocks his performance that year. He set a TD record and in the SB had a clutch TD to put the Pats ahead with a few minutes on the clock. Unfortunately it was a few minutes too many, but no one is knocking him for this but you.

Brady was lucky to even make the superbowl that year.

He played a brutal game vs. SD that year, and since THE TEAM around him was great, they overcame his short commings and went on to play in the superbowl.

He also played bad last year vs Ravens and the team overcame it in the AFC Championship.

Aside from our superbowl year, Manning has never had the fortune of playing remotely close to bad and the team being able to overcome it in the playoffs. Never. Zero wins.

Brady has 6 playoffs wins where he QB rating was 76 or lower.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
You're just a blind homer if you think people don't talk about the AFC being weaker or Spygate.
Ok, who's talking about the AFC being weak right now? And what do we hear more than the other, that Tom Brady is an all-time great QB, or that his SB victories don't count as much because of spygate? You may not be capable of realizing this but nothing you're saying is relevant.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Brady was lucky to even make the superbowl that year.

He played a brutal game vs. SD that year, and since THE TEAM around him was great, they overcame his short commings and went on to play in the superbowl.

He also played bad last year vs Ravens and the team overcame it in the AFC Championship.

Aside from our superbowl year, Manning has never had the fortune of playing remotely close to bad and the team being able to overcome it in the playoffs. Never. Zero wins.

Brady has 6 playoffs wins where he QB rating was 76 or lower.
Brady's Losses in the Playoffs: 6 - In those games:
9 touchdowns
8 interceptions
1568 yards = 261 per game
Completion %: 60.6

Manning's Playoff Losses: 10 - In those games:
9 touchdowns
10 interceptions
2593 yards = 259yards/gm
Completion %: 58

Maybe if Manning played better his teams would of actually gone further in the playoffs...
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

The way that this thread became about Brady is funny. Poor Peyton fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Brady was lucky to even make the superbowl that year.

He played a brutal game vs. SD that year, and since THE TEAM around him was great, they overcame his short commings and went on to play in the superbowl.
All you can do is nitpick because overall it was clearly a great season. He set the record for TDs and made the SB. The vast majority of NFL starters would call that the greatest season of thier career.

Quote:
He also played bad last year vs Ravens and the team overcame it in the AFC Championship.
Sure. So? I never claimed every game he played was great.
Quote:
Aside from our superbowl year, Manning has never had the fortune of playing remotely close to bad and the team being able to overcome it in the playoffs. Never. Zero wins.


Quote:
Brady has 6 playoffs wins where he QB rating was 76 or lower.
He's played in 22 playoff games. You found 6 bad ones. Congrats.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Brady's Losses in the Playoffs: 6 - In those games:
9 touchdowns
8 interceptions
1568 yards = 261 per game
Completion %: 60.6

Manning's Playoff Losses: 10 - In those games:
9 touchdowns
10 interceptions
2593 yards = 259yards/gm
Completion %: 58

Maybe if Manning played better his teams would of actually gone further in the playoffs...


Lets break this down a bit further for Peyton:

Vs. Ravens - He deserves blame for throwing the pick, however overall, taking the whole game into account, he played slightly below average. He had some really fine moments, and a terribly bad one.

2010, Vs. Jets - he played very good. Led us to a go ahead FG attempt late in game....40 seconds or somethng lke that left and then the defense and special teams and coaching let us down, and they lose via a Sanchez FG Drive.

'09 Superbowl - he tossed the pick. He played below average everything included.

'08 Chargers - he played well. For whatever reason, they just beat us.

'07 Chargers - He played very good, wasn't his fault the Chargers back up QB came in and put up numerous touchdowns aganst our defense.

'05 Pitt - He played well. Our OLine got destroyed. If you remember the type of pressure Luck was getting last week, that's what Manning had to deal with. Then Peyton gets team in position to kick the game into overtme and Vanderjact misses.

The years prior, he deserves blame. Tennessee, Jets, both Pats games...he sucked and he deserves the criticism.

As you can see, he has played well in a lot of playoff loses. Especially since '05.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
The way that this thread became about Brady is funny. Poor Peyton fans.All you can do is nitpick because overall it was clearly a great season. He set the record for TDs and made the SB. The vast majority of NFL starters would call that the greatest season of thier career.

Sure. So? I never claimed every game he played was great.



He's played in 22 playoff games. You found 6 bad ones. Congrats.

Not nitpicking at all, just stating the cold hard truth. He wouldn't have made the superbowl if hs team didn't overcome his bad play in the playoff game.

IT'S A TEAM GAME.

BTW, he has played in 22 playoff games, and won six in which he has had a 76 rating or lower.

Overall, he has those six, and 3 other terrible/brutal games (jets, ravens, broncos) and then debateable ones like '06 Indy and the two superbowls.

Brady is no playoff saint. He has been particularly bad since more was asked of him.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:00 PM   #37
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Not nitpicking at all, just stating the cold hard truth. He wouldn't have made the superbowl if hs team didn't overcome his bad play in the playoff game.
Of course you're nitpicking. How else do you criticize a guy that has made the SB 5 of his eleven full seasons as a starter? I don't blame you...well, actually, yes I do. You sound like Rob Parker.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Of course you're nitpicking. How else do you criticize a guy that has made the SB 5 of his eleven full seasons as a starter? I don't blame you...well, actually, yes I do. You sound like Rob Parker.
It's not nitpicking; it's putting things in context. Saying "5 SBs in 11 seasons" without delving into the details is like those obnoxious kobe stans that just close their ears and yell "5 ringz!"
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBeasley08
It's not nitpicking; it's putting things in context. Saying "5 SBs in 11 seasons" without delving into the details is like those obnoxious kobe stans that just close their ears and yell "5 ringz!"
Has there been a Patriots team on which Brady was not the team's best player? If Shaq didn't have 3 Finals MVP awards those Bryant fans would have a point. As it stands, comparing Brady to Bryant isn't exactly a bad thing.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:20 PM   #40
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Originally Posted by Kujo
Arguably the best regular season QB ever. Postseason, not so much, though it's not all his fault.

Waiting for Carbine to jump in.

Montana is the greatest. 4 for 4 in superbowls.

As great as Brady is, he's been exposed in their superbowl failures.
Still, he has more rings than Manning.
Giants beat up on Montana too. He just couldnt play them in the super bowl for him to tarnish his 4-0 record there.

So it's ok to lose before the super bowl but its not ok to lose 2 heartbreaking losses in the big game?

Is that what makes Duncan>Kobe? GTFO here with that
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
Has there been a Patriots team on which Brady was not the team's best player? If Shaq didn't have 3 Finals MVP awards those Bryant fans would have a point. As it stands, comparing Brady to Bryant isn't exactly a bad thing.
Yeah, Brady wasn't even the best player on offense the first year he won it. That was a legit Trent Dilfer like year. Things like that have to be taken into account
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:22 PM   #42
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Is it just me or is Carbine putting together arguments that people usually flame pt for?
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:23 PM   #43
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Wow. You don't know anything about Montana's career, do you? He went to the AFC Championship game with the Chiefs at age 37.

And Brady went to two SB's these past couple of years but yet people are claiming he has "struggled". If Brady's recent playoff history counts as struggling then Montana's does as well..
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:25 PM   #44
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

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Yeah, Brady wasn't even the best player on offense the first year he won it. That was a legit Trent Dilfer like year. Things like that have to be taken into account
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: It needs to be discussed. Manning and his shortcomings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
As you can see, he has played well in a lot of playoff loses. Especially since '05.
I like how you ignored all of Peyton's playoffs games before 2005.

Quote:
In Manning’s 10 playoff losses in Indy, the Colts averaged just 14.2 points per game.

If they were putting up more points, maybe they wouldn't be constantly putting the defense in that position. It was the problem yesterday. Manning had a lot of chances to put away the game and not put the defense in the position. The defense actually did a good job forcing the Ravens to punt, but Peyton never took advantage of it.
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