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Old 01-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #31
alexthegr8
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

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Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack

You could argue that this is why Beal would be better opposite Kyrie, but Beal still has yet to show he is a significantly better outside shooter than Waiters.... and I'm not just talking about the first 1/3 of this season. He didn't show it at Florida, either.

You aren't taking into consideration the fact that Beal is about a year and a half younger than Waiters when comparing shooting percentages in college. Beal's freshman numbers, while not meeting the hype associated with him coming out of college, were essentially Waiters' numbers as a sophomore and significantly better than Waiters' numbers as a freshman. Beal shot the ball wayyyy better in the second half of last season at Florida once he acclimated himself to the college level and shot the ball extremely well in the SEC tournament and the NCAA tournament. The issue for him is that he left school after his freshman season just as he was beginning to justify his high school projections and basically started the process over again. Remember, at the beginning of the season he was the fourth youngest player in the entire league iirc, and the youngest sg ever to start an opening day nba game in the history of the league. Since the start of January he's shooting 50 % from 3, looking far more comfortable out there, and he's about to play with a talented pg that can create better looks for him on a more consistent basis.

Point is, I think there is growing empirical evidence that Beal is going to develop into a better shooting option that Waiters based on their age specific production and projection, and on top of that, Beal has a way more consistent, sound, repeatable shot form than Waiters which usually portends greater consistency.
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

The Bobcats never choose Lillard. Kemba is not a lesser talent and he's two years younger. That would be an awful move for the team. Awful.



There's a good possibility that Jordan chooses the player he's most in love with, in Harrison Barnes. Of course, MKG has shown he's completely worth a selection, but Barnes does have a higher ceiling and it's clear he's made for the NBA. Plus, it's the guy Jordan wanted. I still don't get why he didn't choose him. He got lucky. I think Kidd-Gilchrist is showing quality that people wouldn't quite expect.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

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Originally Posted by alexthegr8
You aren't taking into consideration the fact that Beal is about a year and a half younger than Waiters when comparing shooting percentages in college. Beal's freshman numbers, while not meeting the hype associated with him coming out of college, were essentially Waiters' numbers as a sophomore and significantly better than Waiters' numbers as a freshman. Beal shot the ball wayyyy better in the second half of last season at Florida once he acclimated himself to the college level and shot the ball extremely well in the SEC tournament and the NCAA tournament. The issue for him is that he left school after his freshman season just as he was beginning to justify his high school projections and basically started the process over again. Remember, at the beginning of the season he was the fourth youngest player in the entire league iirc, and the youngest sg ever to start an opening day nba game in the history of the league. Since the start of January he's shooting 50 % from 3, looking far more comfortable out there, and he's about to play with a talented pg that can create better looks for him on a more consistent basis.

Point is, I think there is growing empirical evidence that Beal is going to develop into a better shooting option that Waiters based on their age specific production and projection, and on top of that, Beal has a way more consistent, sound, repeatable shot form than Waiters which usually portends greater consistency.

Don't get me wrong, I expect Beal to become the better professional jumpshooter. And, let me make something else clear... I liked Beal a lot coming out of Florida and I still do (although there are a few things that concern me, at this stage).

As for Waiters in his freshman year at Syracuse, it was somewhat of a disaster. He had major problems with the coaching staff and nearly transferred out, before being coaxed back. This -- attitude issues -- is actually my greatest fear when it comes to Dion, not anything he can or can't do on the court. Although, most of his issues seem to stem from a massive amount of confidence, which isn't necessarily a bad trait.

The only thing I'm pointing out are the inconsistencies between what is perceived to be the case and the reality right now... Which is what this thread is about. So far in their careers, Waiters has been scoring more in less MPG on slightly (very slightly) higher efficiency. And, he averages more assists per game despite playing alongside a pretty ball-dominant point guard.

As to what he has shown on the floor, Waiters has an extraordinary first step. This is something a guy either has or he doesn't. Waiters has it and I believe that is one of the major reasons why he was basically hand-picked by Byron Scott. Other good attributes are his build (strong with a big frame that can move bigger players and take punishment) and playmaking skills (much better than I realized prior to seeing him on this level).

He needs to really work on finishing at the rim amongst the trees. I think an in-between floater type of shot would really help his game. Too often, he tries to get all the way to the rim and that option isn't there a lot of the time in the NBA. The other thing is consistency on his jumpshot. Right now, he is the classic hot/cold guy. When he's on, he has unlimited range and can hit the most difficult off-balance, turnaround 25-footer. When he's off, it may brick off the side of the backboard.

But, the good news is that his issues are fixable and some of them are just due to a lack of experience.


I'm sure Beal is encountering a lot of the same issues and that's why his FG% is what it is. However, they aren't really similar players at all. Beal does not have the kind of first step that Waiters does or really anything close, from what I've seen. I also haven't seen the same ability to be a playmaker for others out of Beal. Maybe that is something which will come in time, or maybe I'm just not catching him on good nights.

Regardless, and more to the point of the thread, I really don't think there is anything that has happened in the first 40 games which would so drastically change the Cavs FO minds that it would flip from someone they were/are so high on in Waiters and go with Beal. That was the point.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 01-14-2013 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:08 PM   #34
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

I'm stunned no one put Lillard as the no 1 pick... Kid's the real deal...
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

Well, I guess I chose the right day to throw some love Waiters' way.

Tonight against the Kings...

Dion Waiters
29 minutes
33 points on 12-18 FG, 3-3 3PT, 6-8 FT
5 assists
2 rebounds
0 turnovers


His highlights to come...
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:48 AM   #36
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

I would draft Drummond #1.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:08 AM   #37
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

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Originally Posted by Salazaar
I'm stunned no one put Lillard as the no 1 pick... Kid's the real deal...
This. Blazers got themselves a steal
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:22 AM   #38
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salazaar
I'm stunned no one put Lillard as the no 1 pick... Kid's the real deal...
Lillard's stellar, but what's his ceiling? Obviously he can get better, but how much? I'm honestly asking, haven't seen much of Portland.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:28 AM   #39
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

Lillard is a very nice player, but he's 22 and I'm not sure how much better he's going to get. Anthony Davis is still just 19 and has looked pretty damned good in his limited play so far this year.

Also, Davis plays a position completely devoid of talent in the NBA, whereas Lillard plays by far the most competitive position in the league.

Davis would still be the pick.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:31 AM   #40
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

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Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
Lillard's stellar, but what's his ceiling? Obviously he can get better, but how much? I'm honestly asking, haven't seen much of Portland.

His four years at Weber State were very well spent. When he's on the court, he looks like he is in absolute control, he has range and can consistently make 3's unlike other streaky guards. He has quickness that allows him to take it to the hoop and the strength to finish through contact.

He reminds me of a Chris Paul-esque player who is clutch (Game winners against multiple teams) He is quick enough which allows him to not be beat of the dribble but is'nt the best perimeter defender.

He is unselfish but is'nt an assist padder, he will do what the team needs him to do and do it well.

His ceiling? Judging by his evolution in college, i think this kid could be a star (Couple of All Star competitions, first team selections) and be a consistent scoring threat while dishing out 6-8 assists per night.


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Old 01-15-2013, 01:51 AM   #41
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Default Re: Redrafting the 2012 NBA Draft

Lillard is doing alot for Portland. Making big shots, taking over etc. when I've watched him play. The fact that he's doing what he's doing on a competitive Portland team has to be pretty telling as well. Alot of times we see guy's throw up numbers on squads because they are simply forced into that role. Lillard is doing big things on a team that could very well end up in the playoffs, or will atleast fight for it down the stretch. I think that's a pretty big positive. I think if he was in New Orleans or somewhere fighting in the lottery you'd probably see him scoring more.

Already has 5 double double's and his assists appear to be climbing as the season goes on. I haven't seen that true PG threat but he does seem like he has a little more potential in that area than some of the other scoring PG's that have came in.

Besides Davis, I don't think you take anybody else infront of him. He may be older but at the very least will probably get better as he becomes more consistently assertive. Not even averaging 16 shots a game, already have a 18/6 type player. It's not like he's extremely polished either, def area's where he could improve. That along with how he's stepped up, I don't think you pass that up because he's like a year or two older than somebody.
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