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Old 01-17-2013, 04:09 PM   #76
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Ha, I read the bold of my own quote and got scared. I couldn't believe I'd say something like that. But then I read the rest of the sentence and realized maybe I just made a grammatical error. The meaning of my sentence was actually, "Carter's shooting is equal to the dunking abilities of both Allen and Durant." Meaning, Carter's a pretty darn good shooter and Allen and Durant either were or are pretty darn good dunkers. Carter's not among the absolute cream of the shooting crop and Allen and Durant are not among the absolute cream of the dunking crop.

Oh ok. I thought it was pretty weird seeing the rest of your post.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:30 PM   #77
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

There clearly is no definite objective answer to this question. What level of dunking is equivalent to what level of shooting? And then...dunking and shooting itself has subjective elements...like type of dunking and shooting. I think it's important to split up shooting and dunking into types...

Shooting ability (50) = Off the dribble shooting (25) + Spot-up shooting (25)

You can then even split each of those into 3pt + midrange shooting...but I won't , since they're normally pretty similar and I have a hard time judging how much each should be valued. If I were to suggest some value, I'd value spot-up 3pt shooting more than spot-up 2 point shooting...and the reverse for Off the dribble shooting.

As for dunking, I think nastiness and flashiness are distinct parts of being a great dunker. Nastiness involves facials and such, while flashiness is windmills, alleyoops, what have you...

So, Dunking ability (50) = Nastiness (25) + Flashiness (25)

I think dividing this up like this...will help reduce confusion as to why many of you disagree.

So...let's judge some obvious candidates (in their primes)...

Michael Jordan
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 20 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 25 + 20 = 45
Overall = 90

Vince Carter
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 20 + 20 = 40
Dunking = N + F = 25 + 25 = 50
Overall = 90

Kevin Durant
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 25 = 50
Dunking = N + F = 20 + 15 = 35
Overall = 85

Tracy McGrady
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 20 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 20 + 20 = 40
Overall = 85

Kobe Bryant
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 20 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 20 + 20 = 40
Overall = 85

Ray Allen
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 20 + 25 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 15 + 10 = 25
Overall = 70

So Vince and MJ, then Kobe, Tmac and Durant and then RayRay. This makes sense to me in terms of pure skill in those narrow categories... If I were rank scoring ability, Vince wouldn't be mentioned and neither would Ray. Durant and MJ would be up there...followed by prime Kobe and then prime T-Mac.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:39 PM   #78
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

Vince Carter, Kobe...and someone who has probably gotten overlooked: Jason Richardson.

Richardson has been probably the second or third best dunker in the NBA since Vince Carter left. And he's a good long range shooter.

If it weren't for Jason Richardson and Desmond Mason, the NBA dunk contest would have been forced to turn into the gimmick show it is today about 5 years earlier.
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Old 01-17-2013, 05:43 PM   #79
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

if you mention vince and t-mac, you have to include drexler in the conversation.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:01 PM   #80
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teanett
if you mention vince and t-mac, you have to include drexler in the conversation.
He could gun, but the fact he was such a miserable three point shooter through the majority of his athletic prime would probably harm him in this discussion, even when fully considering that long range bombing is just a part of shooting. I also acknowledge the 3-ball wasn't insanely popular in the late 80's, so it was more of a special shot as opposed to regular shot. Still, I believe his shooting stroke is not as deadly as Carter's, whose stroke is not as deadly as Allen or Durant's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by memetherapy
There clearly is no definite objective answer to this question. What level of dunking is equivalent to what level of shooting? And then...dunking and shooting itself has subjective elements...like type of dunking and shooting. I think it's important to split up shooting and dunking into types...

Shooting ability (50) = Off the dribble shooting (25) + Spot-up shooting (25)

You can then even split each of those into 3pt + midrange shooting...but I won't , since they're normally pretty similar and I have a hard time judging how much each should be valued. If I were to suggest some value, I'd value spot-up 3pt shooting more than spot-up 2 point shooting...and the reverse for Off the dribble shooting.

As for dunking, I think nastiness and flashiness are distinct parts of being a great dunker. Nastiness involves facials and such, while flashiness is windmills, alleyoops, what have you...

So, Dunking ability (50) = Nastiness (25) + Flashiness (25)

I think dividing this up like this...will help reduce confusion as to why many of you disagree.

So...let's judge some obvious candidates (in their primes)...

Michael Jordan
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 20 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 25 + 20 = 45
Overall = 90

Vince Carter
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 20 + 20 = 40
Dunking = N + F = 25 + 25 = 50
Overall = 90

Kevin Durant
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 25 = 50
Dunking = N + F = 20 + 15 = 35
Overall = 85

Tracy McGrady
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 20 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 20 + 20 = 40
Overall = 85

Kobe Bryant
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 25 + 20 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 20 + 20 = 40
Overall = 85

Ray Allen
Shooting = ODS + SUS = 20 + 25 = 45
Dunking = N + F = 15 + 10 = 25
Overall = 70

So Vince and MJ, then Kobe, Tmac and Durant and then RayRay. This makes sense to me in terms of pure skill in those narrow categories... If I were rank scoring ability, Vince wouldn't be mentioned and neither would Ray. Durant and MJ would be up there...followed by prime Kobe and then prime T-Mac.
I think you're right, this is all quite subjective. Still, I like the effort and thoughts here. Good stuff.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:30 AM   #81
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teanett
if you mention vince and t-mac, you have to include drexler in the conversation.

drexler??
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:14 AM   #82
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Default Re: has there ever been a greater combination of amazing shooter and dunker than durant?

Michael "Air" "Mid Range" Jordan
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