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Old 01-19-2013, 03:42 PM   #61
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by BuffaloBill
Boozer?

I forget about him. Boozer has struggled making shots against tall PF's in the playoffs.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:43 PM   #62
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by Money 23
Neither is Boozer. Or Belenelli or Hinrich. They don't have a LEGIT #2 guy.



They don't need one. What player is there that could make the Bulls that much better?
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:47 PM   #63
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by BuffaloBill
They don't need one. What player is there that could make the Bulls that much better?
No, they absolutely need one. The stacked rosters of the Knicks, and especially Miami have proven this.

Hell, old ass Ray Allen could walk on the Bulls right now and probably be their 2nd best player, and he's Miami's 4th best player.

I think the Bulls with Rose would even have a hard time with the Knicks. They have a rim defender now with Chandler, and they can have Iman Shumpert just get in Rose's square all game and force him into tough decisions.

The Bulls need another legit star player if they are seriously considering doing anything competitively. People get pumped all the time w/ their regular season record thinking they're something they're not. It's just a product of Thibs being a great coach and pushing a group of pros to play hard every night. And he develops great defensive schemes.

In the playoffs, these more talented teams have a higher gear. It's pretty obvious the Heat have been coasting. They always put it into another gear come playoffs. The Bulls bust their nut in the regular season. Without more talent, there isn't another gear to match Miami.

As for who they can get? I honestly don't really know at this point. Boozer, Deng, and Noah aren't getting it done that's for sure. Those guys are GREAT role players. 3rd, 4th, and 5th options on a championship caliber team.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:50 PM   #64
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by Pointguard
There was a Rose MVP post last week and this thread is just an extension of the hate there.



Absolutely not, but your post is just an extension of your love for Derrick Rose. Rose has had one year where he was better than Rondo, and he wasn't even better in the playoffs that year.


I'd respect anyone who thinks Rose would be the best PG, if healthy. But all things considered, there's no reason to rank him ahead of Rajon Rondo.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #65
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
No, they absolutely need one. The stacked rosters of the Knicks, and especially Miami have proven this.

Hell, old ass Ray Allen could walk on the Bulls right now and probably be their 2nd best player, and he's Miami's 4th best player.

I think the Bulls with Rose would even have a hard time with the Knicks. They have a rim defender now with Chandler, and they can have Iman Shumpert just get in Rose's square all game and force him into tough decisions.

The Bulls need another legit star player if they are seriously considering doing anything competitively. People get pumped all the time w/ their regular season record thinking they're something they're not. It's just a product of Thibs being a great coach and pushing a group of pros to play hard every night. And he develops great defensive schemes.

In the playoffs, these more talented teams have a higher gear. It's pretty obvious the Heat have been coasting. They always put it into another gear come playoffs. The Bulls bust their nut in the regular season. Without more talent, there isn't another gear to match Miami.

As for who they can get? I honestly don't really know at this point. Boozer, Deng, and Noah aren't getting it done that's for sure. Those guys are GREAT role players. 3rd, 4th, and 5th options on a championship caliber team.

That's basically it. As I've been saying for years, Thibs and the Bulls are stupid for blowing their wad every night in the regular season. They give 110% energy in the regular season and have nothing left to show for it in the playoffs. We saw it last year how they were spent and got handled in the playoffs when the opposing team turns up their energy to match them, and the year before Indiana should have beat them (with just a little more experience the young 8th seed Pacers beat the Bulls in that series).

The Heat are very smart for pacing themselves during the regular season and turning it up 2 gears in the postseason, when it counts. The Heat can turn that suffocating defense on anytime they want to. There is absolutely no reason to run it 100% of the time in the regular season just to wear themselves out. That's stupid thinking and poor strategy, the season is very long, it's a marathon. We'll leave those silly ideas for the bullshit bulls so they can get pumped and beaten again when it counts.

Postseason success >>>>>>>>>>> Regular season success

Last edited by Hank : 01-19-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:55 PM   #66
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Money 23
Neither is Boozer. Or Belenelli or Hinrich. They don't have a LEGIT #2 guy.



Boozer is most certainly a legit #2 scorer. The Bulls have a terrific team. Boozer, playing like he's playing now, is a legitimate all-star player (not that he should make the team). Deng is a legitimate all-star player. Noah is a legitimate all-star player. Even as borderline ones or guys who shouldn't make it with regularity, they are all-star caliber players. And that's 3 of them.


Boozer is not a fit for this team if Rose is the PG and Rip Hamilton is the SG. Unless, of course, Deng suddenly became a point forward. But if the backcourt is Hinrich and Rose (not the way it was in Rose's first two seasons), then Boozer should probably be able to play the way he's playing now. Noah has to keep it up tho and they can't just put the ball in Rose's hands. Going forward, I don't even see the need to get rid of Boozer. Not the way he's been playing.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:13 PM   #67
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by 97 bulls
How is he Hyped? Hes an exciting player. People enjoy watching him, but thats as far as it goes. What are people saying thats hyping him? Is he being compared to Magic Johnson? Or being called better Isiah Thomas? He deserved the MVP in 2011. The Heat underachieved, and the Magic did their usual 50 wins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOeUmStERvI
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:27 PM   #68
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by imdaman99
being 1st seed is overrated, as we found out last 2 years. its time for the bulls to step up in the playoffs now. #1 seed is nice of course, but it doesnt mean anything if miami exposes you again (with your full roster).

Rose was 22 years old at the time... who have you seen carry a team to conference finals at that age outside of Lebron? It hardly ever works that way and they got beat by a super team, with a guy that seems destined for a top 5 GOAT ranking. And he was paired with the best SG, a top three player at the time both in their prime. Put things in context otherwise you just talking.

Miami exposed the fact that Chicago didn't have a step up player to help Rose out, which is ok because that was their first year contending and their core was basically very young. Miami is a super talented team. Rose is coming off of major surgery. I don't know how much can be expected of them this year.
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Originally Posted by Budadiiii
Put Westbrook on this team and they win 70+ many times and would break their own record multiple times. Westbrook is basically a rich mans DRose with unlimited stamina/durability/passion. DRose is in one of the best positions in NBA history and the guy can't stay healthy to save his life. Shame.
Nobody controls their ACL, Westbrook, tho greatly durable can have his blown out next week. Rose didn't have any major problems his first three years so stop trying to act like it was some major problem. Westbrook is very good but mentally in 2011 he wasn't ready to lead a team, much less one going thru transition, injuries and a new system.

Westbrook was too young, too unsteady, too turnover prone, too erratic, had no control of the game, was sloppy, only drove hard to the basket with no other developed skill. Rose lead all guards in points, rebounds and assist together (First time Kobe and Wade gave up the category in a long time), was third in blocks among guards, first in 4th quarter comebacks, absolutely controlled pace, was one of the best leaders in the league, dominated all of his competition at his position that year except Westbrook whom was taken off guarding Rose. Chicago didn't lose to an elite team in the last four months of the season.

Westbrook is improving and is in a great position but I doubt that he will ever do all of Rose did that year.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:40 PM   #69
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank
We saw it last year how they were spent and got handled in the playoffs when the opposing team turns up their energy to match them, and the year before Indiana should have beat them (with just a little more experience the young 8th seed Pacers beat the Bulls in that series).
Yes, I'm sure that the loss of Rose and Noah and an injured Deng had nothing to do with their playoff loss last year. It was all the opposing team's "energy" and "determination".

And Indiana should've beat them if they were more experienced? Are you kidding me? Ok, then I get to say that the Celtics would've handled the Heat in the ECF last season if they were a little bit younger.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:01 PM   #70
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
people have been saying the Bulls would at least be okay without rose since well before he even won the MVP. and if they didn't think so the Bulls playing pretty well in the many games he missed last year would do it.

people have been making these such and such don't really need such and such topics forever when a star gets hurt.

I remember people clowning Webber in 04 when they had a great record being led by peja.

MVP level players have been getting hurt and having teams carry on forever.

the Bulls being above average without rose means no more than the Bulls being above average without Jordan or the 76ers winning 55 games after wilt left. or the Knicks making the finals without Ewing. The King's being great without Webber. the Knicks barely missing a beat when Willis reed fell apart before the second ring.

is just fuel for haters which no one will care about looking back on the era.

it doesn't matter if a team can win a good number of games without its best player. it comes down to whether or not a team can be taken serious.

it isn't hard to build a respectable team. Taking the team from respectable to legitimate is what being great is all about.

history doesn't remember 51 wins and losing to the pacers.
Read and learn.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:01 PM   #71
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

Also, obvious bait thread is obvious.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:03 PM   #72
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

I think Rose is very good but overrated. part of it is that he's a hero in chicago. there probably isn't an athlete in the country who's as loved by his city as derrick rose.

he's crazy talented as a penetrator, one of the best players in the league at getting into the paint. gets to the free throw line at a great rate for a point guard.

but ... he is not the smartest fella in the world and he's not the smartest player in the world either ... sometimes a poor decision maker who has a habit of passing in the air (hence, high turnover rate) ... not a high-impact defender (doesn't get steals or apply much ball pressure). not a great shooter but shoots a lot of threes anyway.

like, i consider "prime" wade as a notch above rose. wade was much, much craftier, a versatile defender, i think better off the pick and roll.

i think chicago "needs" derrick rose because they need a good player, but I think there are also other players who could replace rose on that team ... westbrook, deron williams, and tony parker I think could slide into the point guard slot for them in his place.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #73
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by Glide2keva
Also, obvious bait thread is obvious.

yup
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:24 PM   #74
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Absolutely not, but your post is just an extension of your love for Derrick Rose. Rose has had one year where he was better than Rondo, and he wasn't even better in the playoffs that year.
LOL, so holding a player down to 24% in the final two games, while carrying an inferior inexperienced team against a championship team to a seven game series and you saying Rondo outplayed him. Nobody in their right mind is going to say Rondo was close to Rose that year. Rose completely dominated him on top of that. Yes, at the level it wasn't considered close. Rose, when guarding him holds him down to some incredible embarrassing numbers - I mentioned three games in which he shot like 21% and averaged 6ppg in those games. And on offense Rondo has real big problems with containing Rose. Rose has three games where he shot like 60% and averaged 38ppg in those games. And this is from a sample size of less than 20 games and Rondo having a couple more years of experience.
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:26 PM   #75
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Default Re: I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

Most of the top players today are replaceable kinds of players.

It's not like Shaq, where you have Shaq, and that's your frontcourt. And it's not like Nash's Suns, where you have Nash and a bunch of guys who shoot and dunk. These two teams didn't have less-good versions of their best players to step in and make the team work. Their teams were built around and totally dependent on their stars.

The top teams today aren't built that way. If Lebron goes out, Wade steps up as the poor man's Lebron. If Durant goes out, Westbrook and Martin can come in and score 25 each. If Paul goes out, well, you still have the most stacked team in the league, and mostly what Paul did was pass to those guys anyway.

So Derrick Rose? You got a team with top notch defense and good shooting and passing. It's led by a very good scoring point guard. How hard is it to find an "okay" scoring point guard to at least hold the team together?

It doesn't mean they're competitive without him. Jordan can retire and the Bulls were still very good, because they had Pippen. But there was no title without Jordan. Great players are still great players, and are necessary.
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