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Old 01-21-2013, 07:23 AM   #16
RaininThrees
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
England, a country that has banned guns for 15 years, has both a higher crime rate, and higher violent crime rate per capita than the United States... which has the most guns per capita in the entire World.

Apparently taking guns from UK citizens didn't stop them from robbing, raping, and killing each other... considering the UK is also ranked as the most violent country in the EU.

2 things:

1) Has anyone ever argued that taking guns away is going to eliminate all crime?

2) Did the violent crime rate go up or down after the ban of guns?

I honestly don't know here, but your point is meaningless without context. If the UK's violent crime rate was 2x higher than the US's pre-game ban and is 1.5x higher now, that means the ban had an effect, and the UK could have been a more violent country in general all along.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

You have never been to London if you are arguing against gun control cause of the high violent crime rate of UK.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
2 things:

1) Has anyone ever argued that taking guns away is going to eliminate all crime?

2) Did the violent crime rate go up or down after the ban of guns?

I honestly don't know here, but your point is meaningless without context. If the UK's violent crime rate was 2x higher than the US's pre-game ban and is 1.5x higher now, that means the ban had an effect, and the UK could have been a more violent country in general all along.
lol

I would love for this guns apologists to come up with stats of how many crimes are stopped by gun owners. Seriously, can someone post a link to some study on how many women weren't raped because they had a gun?

afaik criminals aren't all-seeing, afaik the only way they know someone have a gun is when they are pulled on them, so where's the stats of criminals being killed or just shot with guns?

I find it odd that ZERO information is given backing up the number 1 argument of the guns apologists, but someone they cant' stop bark on how crime is high in places with gun bans
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

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Old 01-21-2013, 09:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaqAttack3234
Only purpose? You ever heard of gun ranges? People shoot for sport and as a hobby, you know. And not just hunting.


What's meant by that statement is the gun was invented as a weapon to shoot and kill other living things. Whereas gun nuts like to use the car analogy, and talk about how many people die to drunken driving, etc. But the car was not invented to kill. It was invented to transport people, and people dying to them is a just a byproduct.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:36 AM   #21
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

The study I've seen that births the "Britain has worse crime and no guns" deal is from 1999. The Firearms Amendment Acts were instituted in 97.

I'd like to see an up to date figure, I'm sure there is one, just haven't seen it.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:39 AM   #22
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

here you can see all forms of crime have been falling in a big way since the mid 90s peak





but, it's also been falling in a big way in the US



so what've we learned today? not shit really, other than damn, the mid 90s was violent.

Last edited by InspiredLebowski : 01-21-2013 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:51 AM   #23
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
here you can see all forms of crime have been falling in a big way since the mid 90s peak





but, it's also been falling in a big way in the US



so what've we learned today? not shit really, other than damn, the mid 90s was violent.
Videogames?


You don't need to see graphs, data, studies, just common sense, if the crime really got much worse after the ban on guns, after 15 years do you think the ban would still be on? So 15 years wouldn't be enough to realize if some new law or policy had a positive or negative effect? How does someone justify 15 years of negative affect of some new policy and that policy still be in effect?
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

what about videogames?
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
here you can see all forms of crime have been falling in a big way since the mid 90s peak





but, it's also been falling in a big way in the US



so what've we learned today? not shit really, other than damn, the mid 90s was violent.


If you want some real interesting reading on the decrease of violent crime, I suggest going here... the link between violent crime, leaded and unleaded gasoline:

http://www.motherjones.com/environme...-link-gasoline



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Old 01-21-2013, 10:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
what about videogames?
They kill people and corrupt the youth (not necessarily in that order).
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Looking back on it now, I wish I played less video games as a kid. I still got out with friends and stuff, but not as much as I would have. I'll try to keep my son from video games or at least discourage him from playing them as much as I did.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
What's meant by that statement is the gun was invented as a weapon to shoot and kill other living things. Whereas gun nuts like to use the car analogy, and talk about how many people die to drunken driving, etc. But the car was not invented to kill. It was invented to transport people, and people dying to them is a just a byproduct.

This is a logical fallacy. You're trying to conflate the intended use of a vehicle to the reason guns were invented.

Drinking and driving = improper and irresponsible use of a vehicle/alcohol.

Murder = improper and irresponsible use of a firearm.

Both have legitimate uses, and both are used for legitimate purposes 99.9999999% of the time. Whether or not they cause harm is dependent upon the person wielding the firearm or driving the vehicle under the influence.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed and has no basis on logic. Try again.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk


Better than this shit



I pray the old guard wisens up over there and flushes this crap out.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #30
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Default Re: New teen gunman kills 5 people..

People who mention the UK are idiots.

First of all, look at the population density, UK is 51 on the list while the US is at place 177. More people on less area often results in more crimes. Compare UK with a city like New York.

There lives 8.2 million people in New York compared to 8.1 million people in London. In 2012, 414 homicides were reported which is an all-time low since they started to count the amount.

Now compare that to London, the last report I could find about London was from 2011 and the total amount there were only 117 homicides reported.

Talk about crime rate all you want but I rather get mugged, stabbed and beaten compared to getting shot....
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