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Old 06-26-2006, 04:38 PM   #16
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Trade Kobe for Shaq.



Naw, in all seriousness I think the Lakers will be fine. They have a fairly smart front office, a great coach, and the most talented player in the league. They probably won't be a contender next year, but in a few years they will be.

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Old 06-26-2006, 04:38 PM   #17
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What the Lakers need are some proven big men. They got Chris Mihm. He's a good one. They got Kwame Brown. He's a bad one.

They need inside scoring from the 4 and the 5.

Maybe Kwame will bust out with a breakout season, but everyone's been saying that for a long time now.
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Old 06-26-2006, 04:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkinchen
Hey,

What trades should the lakers make to try to bring them back to being a championship caliber team? Which players, presumably fed up with being on losing teams, and either at the peak of their career, or slightly after their peak, is going to go trophy hunting by moving to LA to play with Kobe.


Who can the Lakers afford, realistically? What players should they give up to get a solid guy? And who out there would want to team with Bryant, given his reputation, to try to make a championship run?
The short answer is that the Lakers screwed up big-time this season. As I noted at the beginning of the year on the EZBoards, the Lakers have really only three, possibly four commodities that are attractive to other teams.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Lamar Odom
3. Possibly Andrew Bynum
4. Expiring Contracts - The Lakers had Devean George and Vlade Divac (pre-retirement) as expiring contracts - both guys making around 5 million dollars per season. Put them together, and add miscellaneous cap filler (e.g., Vujacic or Cook) and you can take on nearly any salary except a super-max deal like KG's.

Now, however, the Lakers have lost the ability to use George and Divac to add contracts. Let's look at what they now have in the way of expiring contracts:

1. Chris Mihm - 4.24 million
2. Aaron McKie - 2.5 million
3. Luke Walton - 1.35 million

TOTAL: About 8 million

Note that they WOULD have had Brian Grant, whose expiring contract would have been 14.9 million (think there are some teams out there that would have fallen all over themselves for THAT kind of cap relief?) but they cut him with the Allan Houston rule (a stupid move, IMO... yes, they saved themselves a lot in luxury tax money... maybe... but his contract as an expiring deal was perhaps their best trade asset).

So, anyway, let's get to the here and now. The Lakers aren't trading Kobe. That means the only assets other teams might be interested in are "expiring contracts" and maybe Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum... and of course, their draft pick this season (from the Heat). Apparently, the Lakers brass isn't moving Bynum, either. And, oh, yeah, the Lakers front office wants to keep some salary cap room in '07 or '08, so no taking on long-term deals (this, by the way, is a HORRIBLE idea on the part of the Lakers' front office, considering that when you factor in Kobe's deal, Lamar's deal, and the salary you have to guarantee to first-round draft picks and the fact that the Salary Cap is likely to remain flat at around 45 million, you'll have MAYBE 5 million in cap space - in other words, the Mid-Level exception - at the most until Odom's deal runs out in 08-09).

So, fellow Laker fans, you are left with the following to offer other teams:

1. Late first-round draft pick
2. Lamar Odom
3. Expiring Contracts (and you can't take on too much salary in return).

ASSUMPTION: The Lakers front office has to drop the idea of getting under the cap. They simply can't do it, at least not enough to be effective. It's a stupid idea, and getting stupider by the minute. I'm going to assume at some point they do the math and realize this.

Now that you have that bit of stupidity taken care of, you need to figure out what teams might possibly have use for your expiring contracts. In other words, Mihm is your most moveable piece, and you need to find a situation that fits the other team, too.

OPTION 1: Work a sign-and-trade with Atlanta to get Al Harrington. Atlanta has a surplus of small forwards, and seems ready to move Harrington in order to get their youngsters more playing time - especially since they don't want to give him a big, long-term deal. In sending Mihm to Atlanta, they get a halfway decent Center (sorry, Zaza Pachulia, but you don't count), so it makes sense from a personnel standpoint, too. Harrington could get paid a little more than the MLE in the sign & trade and would provide the Lakers with a scoring-minded, somewhat physical forward alongside Odom, and lets Kwame play Center.

OPTION 2: Trade Mihm to Charlotte for Brevin Knight... it's no secret Charlotte is willing to move Brevin if they get the right deal. The Lakers get a playmaking PG who has no problem giving the ball up for assists. The Bobcats get another young big man whose contract gives them cap flexibility next summer - when one assumes Charlotte will make their big Free Agent push - should he not pan out. Don't like this one quite as much as the Harrington deal, but it's not absolutely horrible, and could be a fallback if the Lakers can't sign Marcus Banks.

OPTION 3: "Swap of scrubs." If any team is in desperate need of cap relief (other than the Knicks), it's Golden State. The Lakers could send all of their expiring guys for Derek Fisher and Ike Diogu or Andris Biendrins (or both) - basically, the Lakers want Diogu and Biendrins for the youth and size, and agree to take Fisher's too-generous contract in return. Golden State doesn't give up any of its starters, and gets a decent backup pivot man in Mihm and shaves about 25 million dollars off its future cap. Not a perfect fit for either team, and maybe trading "just to get something done" but there are reasons to look at this.

OPTION 4: Send the expiring contracts to Portland for Darius Miles. We all know Miles has knuckleheaded his way out of town in Portland, and they'll take pretty much anything for him. This gets Miles off Portland's hands, gives them a decent backup center (though Portland still gets to overpay Theo Ratliff), and though it doesn't solve all of Portland's problems (see: Zach Randolph) gets another bad attitude guy out. The Lakers gamble on Miles for (a) the "potential" and (b) his last run in L.A. - alongside Odom - worked out fairly well.

OPTION 5: The pipe dream: Mihm plus the Heat's pick for the #2 plus Ben Gordon. No clue why the Bulls would do this unless there is some chemistry issue with Gordon, and the Bulls are concerned they need more size and can't get enough in the draft, though. Unless the Lakers include extra draft picks or something, there's no way the Bulls do this.

OPTION 6: Pipe Dream II: Odom plus all the expiring contracts for Garnett and Marko Jaric. This only happens if KG demands out of Minnesota and to the Lakers. The Lakers are forced to take Jaric because doing so gets Minnesota 20 million under the cap in just 2 seasons (when Davis' contract expires) instead of 4... and the Wolves absolutely won't miss Marko - they'll be happy to be rid of him.

Those are the scenarios I see for the Lakers, in decreasing order of feasibility (from both sides). I think the Harrington sign & trade scenario actually makes pretty good sense for both teams. Harrington can be option 2 or 3 (a role he seems better suited for than Option 1) and the Hawks clear their logjam at forward a bit and get a natural center... with no long-term strings attached. Harrington gets his money (and playing time). Bynum finally gets some minutes. "Win-win" all around, it seems (well, maybe not for Chris Mihm, who gets stuck in Atlanta - yuk).

But as you can see, the Lakers' options are pretty limited at this point in time. I think they might consider bringing back George at a considerably reduced salary (since he has his Bird Rights with the Lakers, they can sign Banks for the MLE and sign George for a couple million per year as well).
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Old 06-26-2006, 04:56 PM   #19
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Holy shiite man, awesome post.

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Old 06-26-2006, 05:03 PM   #20
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In summary (from my long post before), the Lakers' offseason should look something like this:

1. Draft a player (James White? of course we'll know Wednesday, but for now we'll use him just as a name)

2. The Lakers should be able to trade Mihm and possibly McKie (if needed for salary matching) in a sign & trade for Al Harrington.

3. Sign Marcus Banks for the MLE.

4. Re-sign Devean George to a one-year deal in the 2 million range. He's still athletic and knows the triangle, which makes him an ideal backup player for the Lakers, and at 2 million he'll be paid like one.

5. Sign a backup PG (Smush?) to a veteran minimum

Their regular rotation then looks like this:

PG: Banks / Vujacic (or Smush)
SG: Kobe / George
SF: Odom / Walton
PF: Harrington / Cook / Turiaf
C: Brown / Bynum

With White and assorted flotsam and jetsam at the end of the bench.

The starting lineup, except for Brown, are all decent players, they have three legit scoring threats in the starting lineup (Kobe, Odom, Harrington), and maintain a young, athletic team. The backups should know the system by now and provide some different looks when on the floor.

Title threats? Absolutely not. In the hunt for a playoff spot? Probably. Prospects for the future? Depends on how fast Bynum and White develop (and whether Walton can become more of a scoring threat and better defensively - we know George's limitations, and Vujacic and Cook are strictly shooters barring some major brain surgery). Turiaf is an energy guy, but until he adds a legitimate 15- to 17-foot jumper, will only score on garbage/hustle plays.

EDIT: Added Turiaf.

Last edited by Sound and Fury : 06-26-2006 at 05:08 PM.
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Old 06-26-2006, 05:05 PM   #21
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Ahem,I believe you missed Turiaf. Turiaf will play more minutes next year and be more productive.
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Old 06-26-2006, 05:13 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound and Fury
In summary (from my long post before), the Lakers' offseason should look something like this:

1. Draft a player (James White? of course we'll know Wednesday, but for now we'll use him just as a name)

2. The Lakers should be able to trade Mihm and possibly McKie (if needed for salary matching) in a sign & trade for Al Harrington.

3. Sign Marcus Banks for the MLE.

4. Re-sign Devean George to a one-year deal in the 2 million range. He's still athletic and knows the triangle, which makes him an ideal backup player for the Lakers, and at 2 million he'll be paid like one.

5. Sign a backup PG (Smush?) to a veteran minimum

Their regular rotation then looks like this:

PG: Banks / Vujacic (or Smush)
SG: Kobe / George
SF: Odom / Walton
PF: Harrington / Cook / Turiaf
C: Brown / Bynum

With White and assorted flotsam and jetsam at the end of the bench.

The starting lineup, except for Brown, are all decent players, they have three legit scoring threats in the starting lineup (Kobe, Odom, Harrington), and maintain a young, athletic team. The backups should know the system by now and provide some different looks when on the floor.

Title threats? Absolutely not. In the hunt for a playoff spot? Probably. Prospects for the future? Depends on how fast Bynum and White develop (and whether Walton can become more of a scoring threat and better defensively - we know George's limitations, and Vujacic and Cook are strictly shooters barring some major brain surgery). Turiaf is an energy guy, but until he adds a legitimate 15- to 17-foot jumper, will only score on garbage/hustle plays.

EDIT: Added Turiaf.

nice post man. this was about the best and most realistic scenario
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:17 PM   #23
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I woudn't be talking. Your JailBlazers could make a starting five for the all prison team.

Actually only 3: Miles, Randolph, and Telfair. The other guys are pretty clean.
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkinchen
Hey,

What trades should the lakers make to try to bring them back to being a championship caliber team? Which players, presumably fed up with being on losing teams, and either at the peak of their career, or slightly after their peak, is going to go trophy hunting by moving to LA to play with Kobe.


Who can the Lakers afford, realistically? What players should they give up to get a solid guy? And who out there would want to team with Bryant, given his reputation, to try to make a championship run?

If anyone is going to chase a ring, the last team they'd go to would be the Lakers.
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:29 PM   #25
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wet dream for laker fans:

#2
#16
Chris Duhon

for

Lamar Odom

The Lakers need to Chop (watch his show tonight) payroll so this is the ideal scenario for LA.
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Old 06-26-2006, 07:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanPippenRodman
wet dream for laker fans:

#2
#16
Chris Duhon

for

Lamar Odom

The Lakers need to Chop (watch his show tonight) payroll so this is the ideal scenario for LA.

why would Chicago do that?
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Old 06-26-2006, 08:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamKnight
why would Chicago do that?
Good question.

The only reasons I can think of:

1. The Bulls don't feel this is a good draft year, and thus the #2 and #16 picks are not as good as Lamar Odom.... kind of the reverse of when they traded Elton Brand (proven commodity) for Tyson Chandler (high draft pick).

2. The Bulls feel they have plenty of young pieces and don't need to keep stockpiling more - instead, they feel that it's time to start winning now. Continuing to stockpile young talent starts to defeat itself at some point because you don't have enough minutes to go around nor enough money to pay everyone when their rookie contracts expire (see the 2003 Los Angeles Clippers). For instance, with the Duhon/Hinrich/Gordon backcourt combination, there's not really a compelling reason to add more young guards in Chicago... there's nowhere to play them.

Reason #1 is perhaps a good reason to trade for Odom. Reason #2 probably isn't.

The Lakers would love this because it helps their cap situation immensely... which probably means it won't happen unless Chicago is absolutely sold that Odom is (a) worth what he's getting paid (hint: he's not) and (b) better than anything they'll find at #2 (he probably is).
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Old 06-26-2006, 10:21 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heretik32
So why do you claim he's more of a defensive liability?


you had to teach him english. that's a shame but it was funny.
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Old 06-26-2006, 10:56 PM   #29
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Ok. So let's assume Phil Jackson is trying to re-create his amazing 95-96 Bulls team that featured Jordan, Pippen, and Rodman. Since they already have surrogate Jordan and Pippen in the form of Kobe and Odom, this means that they are going to be looking for a substitute Rodman. The guy that stands out to me the most as being able to fill this role is Reggie Evans. This guy is the best RPM (rebounds per minute) in the league. And, if given 35 minutes a night could easily lead the league in rebounds by game. So, the new trio becomes Kobe-Odom-Evans. I think this team could be dangerous.

Everyone that is suggesting that the Lakers use Odom as trade bait has to keep in mind that Phil doesn't like to trade key players because it takes at least a year to learn the triangle offense, so Odom is definitely not for sale.

So, I think the most realistic offseason for the Lakers looks like this:

Draft James White at 26, and maybe Pops Mensah-Bonsu in the second round. You draft him solely for the purpose of bringing some athleticism to this team, as well as likeability. Something the Lakers definitely don't have right now with the-guy-everyone-loves-to-hate, Kobe Bryant.

Trade Chris Mihm and Brian Cook for Reggie Evans
Trade Sasha Vujacic and Luke Walton for Marcus Banks

Which leaves them with next years very solid roster of:

Marcus Banks/ Smush Parker
Kobe Bryant/James White
Lamar Odom/Devean George
Reggie Evans/ Ronny Turiaf (new and improved, he is rumored to be working out with Kobe Bryant on his regime this summer)
Kwame Brown/Andrew Bynum (improvement in any one of these guys would make the Lakers a very strong team)

The weakness of last seasons Lakers were obvious. Firstly, they didn't have a point guard that could penetrate the lane and create his own shot, or drop a dime in the lane for a big man in the lane. Banks can do both of these things. Plus he is a really solid defender. So, he can shut down Steve Nash next year in the second round of the playoffs. Secondly, they were constantly giving up offensive rebounds because they didn't have a true power forward in the paint to bang with guys like Shawn Marion. Lastly, no offensive production from a big man in the paint. Evans certainly won't provide this, but hopefully Brown or Bynum will next year. Really, if these guys commit to a good training regime this summer (with Kareem Abdul Jabar) they will have a whole assortment of post moves to go to.

Personally, I think this roster, which is very feasible and even likely for next year, could definitely make a playoff push. It is almost certain that they are drafting James White and trading for Marcus Bank. So, the determining factor in next years Lakers strength will be their startin power forward. Turiaf is not good enough to take that roll, so they definitely need to seek a trade.

So, in truth, the question for the Lakers is really: who will be their starting power forward for next year? Because, whoever it is will either make or break this team. Here is my list of possible acquistions, there effectiveness, and the probability of acquiring the player.

Reggie Evans ( rebounding machine and very tough, very likely)
Carlos Boozer ( scorer, rebounder, and tough, unlikely)
Al Harrington ( scorer, very mobile, not likely)
Kevin Garnett (does it all, very low)
Drew Gooden (some scoring, some rebounds, not likely)
Kenyon Martin (some dunks, why?)
Zach Randolph (20/10, very solid, could happen)
Nene Hilario (we don't know, could definitely happen, but why try)

Take your pic LA, but be wise. Whoever you get is either gonna make you a contender or a pretender.
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Old 06-30-2006, 04:44 PM   #30
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I want to revisit this topic now that the draft has come and gone, and would rather dredge up an old thread than start a new one. The Lakers' draft nets them, in essence, Jordan Farmar and Maurice Evans (via trade). That means the Lakers' roster now looks like this (players with an asterisk* are expiring contracts if my sources are correct):

CENTERS: Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm*, Andrew Bynum
FORWARDS: Lamar Odom, Brian Cook*, Ronny Turiaf, Luke Walton*
GUARDS: Kobe Bryant, Maurice Evans, Smush Parker*, Jordan Farmar, Aaron McKie*, Sasha Vujacic, Von Wafer*, J.R. Pinnock

They also hold the Bird Rights to Devean George (meaning they can pull a S&T with him).

I think the Lakers were fortunate to get Farmar - he reminds me a lot of Derek Fisher (not super quick, but quick enough for most guards, and like Fisher early in his career is a suspect outside shooter - more of a "tough" PG than a "quick" PG), and I'll give Mitch Kupchak credit - I really liked the trade of a second-round draft pick for Maurice Evans - I think Evans is better than anything that was on the board at the time.

So the question is, now what? The Lakers have a ton of surplus guards and conventional wisdom says they still need (a) another scoring option in the starting lineup, (b) an upgrade at starting forward, (c) a quality starting PG - because Farmar is just not ready right now, and we know about McKie and Smush. They can accomplish (b) at the same time they accomplish (a) or (c), but that still means they are two moves away from having a proper team... one assumes that free agency with the MLE should be able address one move, but that still requires one trade.

Since my first post in the thread, I have read that the sale of the Hawks to Steve Belkin might put a freeze on the Hawks acquiring more salary and might thereby make any sign & trade for Al Harrington impossible. So what do you do if you're the Lakers? Do you offer the MLE to Harrington and try to do a sign & trade with the Wolves (youth and/or expiring contracts) to get Marcus Banks? Or do you offer Banks the MLE, hoping to pick up a quality forward in a later trade (but risk missing out on Harrington)?

If I'm the Lakers, I am on the phone with the Wolves and the Hawks, figuring out my S&T options. If I can guarantee myself a S&T to get one or the other, I do that and offer the MLE to the guy I didn't get. If I can get either in a S&T (but not both), I immediately try to see if the one guy will take my MLE. On the odd chance I can get BOTH in a S&T, I count my blessings and do that, then use my MLE to add a quality backup PF/C.

But what do YOU do?
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