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Old 01-23-2013, 05:57 PM   #1
CavaliersFTW
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Default I'm about to make a scale chart with Kevin Love/Durant/modern players next too...

...players from the past - such as Hakeem Olajuwon, Wes Unseld, Nate Thurmond etc. I've been hunting for source images that meet the strict requirements for scaling purposes. Now I have a question for all of you:

This is a modern basketball shoe, note that the foot sits on top of the thick foam/grip at the bottom of the shoe. Most shoe brands have been made this way ("on" the rubber pad, rather than "in" it) since the 1970's, and they got significaly thick right around the mid 1980's


These are Chuck Taylors (very oldschool shoes) note that the foot actually sits inside the rubber surrounding the shoe, rather than on top of it.


My question is: Players accross the eras are wearing a variety of thickness shoes, from cardboard thin Chucks up to the 2 inch platforms Kevin Love wears. This effects the visible appearance of a players size significantly especially when you see how much it effects the height of their shoulders. Should I scale all the players so that they are on their biological "heels"? As in, should I adjust images where a player is in thick shoes, so that the thick pad they are standing on is moved below the level plane I will place everyone on? And also, with Chuck Taylor shoes, most of the pics I can actually see the impression of the players foot through the fabric, I could bump those images down the few pixels or w/e so that everyone is essentially standing on their theoretical bare feet

It's rather easy to see where a persons foot actually sits on a modern style shoe, it would be an easy adjustment to make. So should I do it to level the playing field?




Reason I ask now ahead of time is because if I make the decision to do this on my own and post it w/o giving people prior notice or input that could sway me to not do so I will take a ton of flak from trolls who say "you cut off the modern players shoes much more than the past ones to make modern guys look shorter!!!" - I'm just pointing out that there is a sound logical reason to do it this way, and that there is a distinct difference in how shoes are made then vs now and therefore how much shoe would need cut down then vs now. If everyone is scaled next to each other, and everyone is standing on their actual heals (not on the varying degree of shoe pad sizes) I think we will get a better understanding of how big certain players actually are. Because I'm not just going to be scaling players who have "known" measurements, I'm also going to be throwing in players who have never been measured w/o shoes whom it might be very revealing to see their actual height or bulk next to other players.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: I'm about to make a scale chart with Kevin Love/Durant/modern players next too...

As long as you have accurate shoe measurements for everyone you want to use, then sure. I'd be interested to see it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: I'm about to make a scale chart with Kevin Love/Durant/modern players next too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWhiteGreen
As long as you have accurate shoe measurements for everyone you want to use, then sure. I'd be interested to see it.
no no, not what I'm saying - and would not be possible that way either

Even players who have known measurements are not still wearing the same shoes they wore in the draft - also it is even stated by draftexpress that often times players enter the draft wearing shoes that are deliberately too large and that the players never even intend to play in said shoes - so subtracting the "known" measurement of a players shoes won't work. This is literally a simple as eyballing a persons shoe that is in the photograph that met the requirements for scaling - and moving that player down until the "thick" bottom section of the shoe falls below the ground-zero plane of measurement.

Perhaps I can whip up an example of what I mean once I get home from work
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: I'm about to make a scale chart with Kevin Love/Durant/modern players next too...



here like this, I would essentially be putting everyone so that they are standing on their own heel, I would be subtracting the thickness of the pads of their shoes - it is not based on knowing "measurements" of their shoes, it is simply based on eyeballing the shoes they are wearing in the pic, because people can change their shoes - does this technique seem inherently flawed or unfair?

Oh and one more thing to add - I'm scaling the players based on the diameter of the basketball they will be holding in their hands (part of the requirements for the source images). I've cross checked if this works for accurate scaling with players who have known measurements, and I get consistently accurate results every time as long as I select images free of distortion, and make sure the basketball is on an even plane with the person (not held out far in front of them or behind them)

Last edited by CavaliersFTW : 01-23-2013 at 09:09 PM.
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