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Old 01-25-2013, 07:27 PM   #61
jrong
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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I honestly think if Lebron played in MJs time he would have suffered the same fate, by virtue of mental toughness alone. I don't think Lebron is mentally soft (anymore), but MJ would have protracted Lebron's early struggles and used it to destroy him.

And he nails it, folks. The true GOAT was a mental assassin. Current LeBron is still mentally hit-or-miss, while prior to last year, he was a mental midget. It wasn't just the Finals failure in 2011. There was a another Finals failure or at least drastic underperformance in 2007 (he was not expected to beat the Spurs, but he WAS expected to at least fight) and similar failures/ underperformances in the 2009 and 2010 ECSFs. That's FOUR big-stage playoff let-downs, not one.

MJ would have eaten LBJ's lunch. So-called "LeBron generation kids" need to wipe their snotty noses and go do their homework-- their history homework.

LeBron is already top 10 in my mind. But, I am uncertain of whether he will ever be top 5. The following are a list of players that I question whether he can ever surpass:

MJ
MJ (the two MJs are practically untouchable)
Wilt (even more statistically dominant than LBJ and, so far, more championships)
KAJ (Bron trails by six titles, many all-time records, and longevity of performance)
Shaq (more titles/ FMVPs; more dominant than Bron in his prime)
Bird (LeBron without the athleticism but with a dead-eye shot; more rings)

And who even knows how to evaluate Bill Russell? Anyway, LeBron is in the next group with TD, Kobe, etc.

And finally, it has to be said, Jordan never played with a Wade. Pippen never gave Mike anything approaching the support in a Finals or postseason that Wade provided James last year on one damn leg no less.

In fact, LBJ still isn't that much better than a maximized Wade (notice my choice of words-- I said "maximized", not "prime", as in Wade is nowhere close to being maximized currently; subtract LeBron from the team, and you'd see he is very much still in his prime). Don't believe me? Check how close their career per 36 stats are, even in spite of Wade's several injury-plagued years and him having spent quite a few years as a 1b, 2, or 3/4 option (rookie regular season).

Now, "LeBron generation kids", I want you to write the following 100 times:

I will stop overrating LeBron and insulting Michael Jeffrey Jordan, the greatest player that ever was.
I will stop overrating LeBron and....

Last edited by jrong : 01-25-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:32 PM   #62
Young X
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Lebron arguably isn't even better than Prime Wade, how is this niqqa supposed to be better than Jordan?
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:39 PM   #63
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by jrong
And finally, it has to be said, Jordan never played with a Wade. Pippen never gave Mike anything approaching the support in a Finals or postseason that Wade provided James last year on one damn leg no less.[/b]

This is not true.

Pippen's first 3 Finals were a solid for a second option. Pippen's 91-93 run postseason is very much comparable and was a better defender.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:54 PM   #64
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

All right now OP I will say this for ya:



What you said, is said.

LeBron in his youth trashed out the League like very few have in history. People bash him for failing at the highest levels. But who else took Cleveland garbage to that mountain top? If it was too much for a boy to do, where is the shame in that? What he did at 23 was spectacular!!

Now, he's a man in the man's League and he has a team around him that competes at the highest level.

We'll just see.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #65
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

If you say so.

People whose minds are made up are impervious to anything that disagrees with them, so it's pointless to argue the point.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:07 PM   #66
jrong
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Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
This is not true.

Pippen's first 3 Finals were a solid for a second option. Pippen's 91-93 run postseason is very much comparable and was a better defender.

Fair enough. A few less points, a few more rebounds and assists. Basketball Reference only has individual playoff game boxscores, not series averages, so I couldn't check Pip's Finals performances without doing a bunch of math that I'm not willing to do right now.

But, these series came earlier in Scottie's career than 2012 did in Wade's, and as I said, Scottie didn't have to go under the knife as soon as the parade was over. And there is no way Scottie could have ever taken the reins in a Finals with MJ standing there watching him, as Wade did in 2011. People forget that if Brian Cardinal hadn't injured Wade in Game 5, he still may have been able to carry LeBron's underachieving ass to that title.

So I stand by my statement: Jordan never played with a Wade.

Last edited by jrong : 01-25-2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:09 PM   #67
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

Entitled to your opinion but I personally wouldn't rank him over people like Chamberlain, Jordan, Bird, Kareem, Magic etc
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:10 PM   #68
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by jrong
Fair enough. A few less points, a few more rebounds and assists. Basketball Reference only has individual playoff game boxscores, not series averages, so I couldn't check Pip's Finals performances without doing a bunch of math that I'm not willing to do right now.

But, these series came earlier in Scottie's career than 2012 did in Wade's, and as I said, Scottie didn't have to go under the knife as soon as the parade was over. And there is no way Scottie could have ever took the reins in a Finals with MJ watching him, as Wade did in 2011. People forget that if Brian Cardinal hadn't injured Wade in Game 5, he still may have been able to carry LeBron's underachieving ass to the title.

So I stand by my statement: Jordan never played with a Wade

Good points.

At their best and primes, I agree that Wade is better. Wade will probably end up higher than Pippen too on most consensus all-time list with more playoff success, if he isn't already.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:11 PM   #69
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

He's pretty damn good. How good? I don't know.

It'd be fun to revisit the top 10 all-time peaks project though (the voting fell apart due to stans going at it).
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:14 PM   #70
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Good points.

At their best and primes, I agree that Wade is better. Wade will probably end up higher than Pippen too on most consensus all-time list with more playoff success, if he isn't already.
Scottie in the first 3 peat > last years and current wade
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:16 PM   #71
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by Young X
Lebron arguably isn't even better than Prime Wade, how is this niqqa supposed to be better than Jordan?

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:17 PM   #72
jrong
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
All right now OP I will say this for ya:



What you said, is said.

LeBron in his youth trashed out the League like very few have in history. People bash him for failing at the highest levels. But who else took Cleveland garbage to that mountain top? If it was too much for a boy to do, where is the shame in that? What he did at 23 was spectacular!!

Now, he's a man in the man's League and he has a team around him that competes at the highest level.

We'll just see.

These are the kind of threads that make people hate LeBron. Hell, I'm obligated to root for him (until he goes back to Cleveland in 2014), and you all are making me think that Kevin Durant/Chris Paul: 2013 MVP/FMVP has a nice ring to it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:17 PM   #73
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

I don't know why people think he's far from Jordan or something. Jordan put 5 points more than Lebron in average, but Lebron is a better passer. Efficiency wise they are on the same level. All around skill are close too.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:41 PM   #74
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by jrong
These are the kind of threads that make people hate LeBron. Hell, I'm obligated to root for him (until he goes back to Cleveland in 2014), and you all are making me think that Kevin Durant/Chris Paul: 2013 MVP/FMVP has a nice ring to it.
Don't say "you all" when talkin to me because I'm not part of that gang!

Both those guys are terrific but to me james is looking at some more hardware at this point
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:43 PM   #75
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Default Re: LeBron James right now is the best player of all time

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Originally Posted by Segatti
I don't know why people think he's far from Jordan or something. Jordan put 5 points more than Lebron in average, but Lebron is a better passer. Efficiency wise they are on the same level. All around skill are close too.
Big O has been watching from that same viewpoint as you - tell him hi when you see him
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