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Old 01-29-2013, 04:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
The point is with those stats he took his team to the final. Only Diamantidis was able to do that and that's why he was first team and Pargo was 2nd. Spanoulis was 2nd team for sg/sf. They weren't empty stats. As you could see he was the starting and top pg for a team that made the Euroleague finals.

http://www.euroleague.net/competitio...asoncode=E2010

In the final four he was 2nd on his team in points, rebounds and he had 13 more assists then the next closest teammate. You could definitely make the argument that that he was one of the top pgs in Europe.

He was very good ( I loved watching him play and he became one of my favorite players ) but he wasn't top 5 pg in Europe .

You need to stop looking at stats because they tell nothing you need to watch the game to see how good is someone , there are many of players with good stats but fans still don't consider them good .
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:06 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
He was very good ( I loved watching him play and he became one of my favorite players ) but he wasn't top 5 pg in Europe .

You need to stop looking at stats because they tell nothing you need to watch the game to see how good is someone , there are many of players with good stats but fans still don't consider them good .

Yes you're right about that. It is important not to just look at stats. But for a forum like this stats are important. Watching players play is important but not as important as stats, awards and win/loss record. When it comes down to it fans opinions about who is good or not is just that, opinions and therefore arbitrary. Fans will say their favorite players are better than they really are. Stats, official awards and win/loss records do not lie and give an unbiased picture of different players.

I don't have time to actually watch every single NBA, Euroleague, FIBA, Eurocup, etc...game but I can watch highlights and analyze box scores to get an idea of how players are performing.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
Yes you're right about that. It is important not to just look at stats. But for a forum like this stats are important. Watching players play is important but not as important as stats, awards and win/loss record. When it comes down to it fans opinions about who is good or not is just that, opinions and therefore arbitrary. Fans will say their favorite players are better than they really are. Stats, official awards and win/loss records do not lie and give an unbiased picture of different players.

I don't have time to actually watch every single NBA, Euroleague, FIBA, Eurocup, etc...game but I can watch highlights and analyze box scores to get an idea of how players are performing.

No you can't get the idea how player is performing just by watching stats or highlights and watching games is certanly more important .

Teodosic and Brown have the same apg but Teodosic is a lot better passer than Brown it's like comparing Nash and Rose but since the way they count assists in Europe is different you will never see how good of a passer is someone .

There are some players with high rpg who don't box out on defense so even though they have more rebounds than someone else who boxes out and let's his teammates get the rebounds it doesn't mean they are making their team better at rebounding .

Some players are worse at scoring than stats show becuase the way they play , if player A has 15 ppg it doesn't mean anything if he gets them by hitting open lay ups that player B is creating for him .

Someone might have a lot of TOs but it might not be his fault , maybe his teammates aren't moving well so he doesn't have someone to pass to .

Do you understand now why you need to watch games ?
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
No you can't get the idea how player is performing just by watching stats or highlights and watching games is certanly more important .

Teodosic and Brown have the same apg but Teodosic is a lot better passer than Brown it's like comparing Nash and Rose but since the way they count assists in Europe is different you will never see how good of a passer is someone .

There are some players with high rpg who don't box out on defense so even though they have more rebounds than someone else who boxes out and let's his teammates get the rebounds it doesn't mean they are making their team better at rebounding .

Some players are worse at scoring than stats show becuase the way they play , if player A has 15 ppg it doesn't mean anything if he gets them by hitting open lay ups that player B is creating for him .

Someone might have a lot of TOs but it might not be his fault , maybe his teammates aren't moving well so he doesn't have someone to pass to .

Do you understand now why you need to watch games ?

Yes but who has time to watch every game.

And I don't agree about someone getting 15 ppg not meaning anything. Yes scoring 15 or one game perhaps but not for a whole season. If player A is getting 15 all the time by hitting wide open lay ups and his team is winning because of that, other teams are going to scout him and tell their players to be sure not to leave him open.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
That's just weird than. Being selected to an all-Euroleague team means you are one of the top 10 players or at least one of the top 2 or 4 at your position. Also being the lead scorer and assist man on a Euroleague runner-up is also star worthy. In the NBA the top 20-25 players are considered stars. The NBA has 6 more teams the Euroleague but still.

So Euroleague has a culture where the top players are not considered stars for some reason. Then fine, Pargo was not a "star" in Euroleague but he was a top player. It's only an argument about semantics at this point.

You are a moron.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
The point is with those stats he took his team to the final. Only Diamantidis was able to do that and that's why he was first team and Pargo was 2nd. Spanoulis was 2nd team for sg/sf. They weren't empty stats. As you could see he was the starting and top pg for a team that made the Euroleague finals.

http://www.euroleague.net/competitio...asoncode=E2010

In the final four he was 2nd on his team in points, rebounds and he had 13 more assists then the next closest teammate. You could definitely make the argument that that he was one of the top pgs in Europe.

stats stats stats stats stats

you are a retard that has never actually watched a game.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:19 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
Yes you're right about that. It is important not to just look at stats. But for a forum like this stats are important. Watching players play is important but not as important as stats, awards and win/loss record. When it comes down to it fans opinions about who is good or not is just that, opinions and therefore arbitrary. Fans will say their favorite players are better than they really are. Stats, official awards and win/loss records do not lie and give an unbiased picture of different players.

I don't have time to actually watch every single NBA, Euroleague, FIBA, Eurocup, etc...game but I can watch highlights and analyze box scores to get an idea of how players are performing.

Kevin Love must be your favorite player of all time. Just stop.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:20 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
Yes but who has time to watch every game.

And I don't agree about someone getting 15 ppg not meaning anything. Yes scoring 15 or one game perhaps but not for a whole season. If player A is getting 15 all the time by hitting wide open lay ups and his team is winning because of that, other teams are going to scout him and tell their players to be sure not to leave him open.

You are a troll.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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You are a troll.


That's coming from a poster whose tagline is "crazed troll". Well I guess it takes one to know one.

I would ask is it possible for you to add to a discussion instead of just throwing around insults but I guess then you wouldn't be a crazed troll.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:46 AM   #25
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
Yes but who has time to watch every game.

And I don't agree about someone getting 15 ppg not meaning anything. Yes scoring 15 or one game perhaps but not for a whole season. If player A is getting 15 all the time by hitting wide open lay ups and his team is winning because of that, other teams are going to scout him and tell their players to be sure not to leave him open.

You don't need to watch every game but 5 or 6 games are enough to see how is someone playing .

Well if player A gets his points from open lay ups that are created by player B than you need to stop player B not player A but if player B is so good you can't stop him than you won't be able to stop player A .

Ofcourse there aren't any players that can score 15 ppg only by hitting open lay ups that someone else created for them but for example Krstic gets at least half of his points by Teodosic creating for him or Navarro only needs to be on the court and because of his scoring defense will need to concetrated at guarding him and his teammates will have couple of open opportunities so he basically created those chances for them .
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:25 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
You don't need to watch every game but 5 or 6 games are enough to see how is someone playing .

Well if player A gets his points from open lay ups that are created by player B than you need to stop player B not player A but if player B is so good you can't stop him than you won't be able to stop player A .

Ofcourse there aren't any players that can score 15 ppg only by hitting open lay ups that someone else created for them but for example Krstic gets at least half of his points by Teodosic creating for him or Navarro only needs to be on the court and because of his scoring defense will need to concetrated at guarding him and his teammates will have couple of open opportunities so he basically created those chances for them .

Steve Novak is a type A player. He was getting his shots from open 3s because teams were doubling Anthony. There was a while where he was scoring around 20 points a game. But teams scouted the games and realized that you need to always put a defender on Novak no matter what. Now for many games he is held scoreless because his man stays on him all the time.

I always thought of Navarro as a type A player too and believe he get many of his points from teams concentrating on the Gasol brothers. When Navarro did not have Pau in 2010 he did not fair so well. Also I remember in the gold medal game of 2012 Navarro had like 20+ points in the first half. In the 2nd half Kobe told coach I got him and Navarro did not score another point the rest of the game. If you put a good one on one defender on Navarro who never leaves him to double team he can be shut down, just like Novak, but that leaves one less player to double Anthony, Pau, etc...
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
Steve Novak is a type A player. He was getting his shots from open 3s because teams were doubling Anthony. There was a while where he was scoring around 20 points a game. But teams scouted the games and realized that you need to always put a defender on Novak no matter what. Now for many games he is held scoreless because his man stays on him all the time.

I always thought of Navarro as a type A player too and believe he get many of his points from teams concentrating on the Gasol brothers. When Navarro did not have Pau in 2010 he did not fair so well. Also I remember in the gold medal game of 2012 Navarro had like 20+ points in the first half. In the 2nd half Kobe told coach I got him and Navarro did not score another point the rest of the game. If you put a good one on one defender on Navarro who never leaves him to double team he can be shut down, just like Novak, but that leaves one less player to double Anthony, Pau, etc...

Navarro is better offensive player than Pau and might even be better player overall but he is a lot better player than Marc .

You clearly don't know how good of a player he is , Kobe guarded him in the first half too if If I remember good so this just something made up to overrate Kobes defense .

Only way you can stop Navarro is by playing with a lot of contact but reffs will almost never alow that and if they do he will still score 10 points because of his floping .

And another reason he isn't the type A player is because he scores by creating for himselfe and by moving off the ball .
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:12 PM   #28
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
Navarro is better offensive player than Pau and might even be better player overall but he is a lot better player than Marc .

You clearly don't know how good of a player he is , Kobe guarded him in the first half too if If I remember good so this just something made up to overrate Kobes defense .

Only way you can stop Navarro is by playing with a lot of contact but reffs will almost never alow that and if they do he will still score 10 points because of his floping .

And another reason he isn't the type A player is because he scores by creating for himselfe and by moving off the ball .

Yes Kobe guarded him in the first half but would sag off him to help double the bigs down low. In the second half he told coach not to worry and he stuck to Navarro like glue and did't try to help anyone else. If Navarro is not a type A player than why did he not score at all in the 2nd half? The gold medal game is the biggest game in a players career, especially a Euroleague player.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by gabepizza
Yes Kobe guarded him in the first half but would sag off him to help double the bigs down low. In the second half he told coach not to worry and he stuck to Navarro like glue and did't try to help anyone else. If Navarro is not a type A player than why did he not score at all in the 2nd half? The gold medal game is the biggest game in a players career, especially a Euroleague player.

You do know Navarro was injured and he still is and thats why he will retire in couple of years .

Also Kobe didn't sag off him to help double the bigs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKW9fmiXCCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7eRRDp5MrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mwVeY4wSE
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bobby Brown

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Originally Posted by Fiba basketball
You do know Navarro was injured and he still is and thats why he will retire in couple of years .

Also Kobe didn't sag off him to help double the bigs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKW9fmiXCCs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7eRRDp5MrI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mwVeY4wSE

You realize those highlights are from a friendly, not the gold medal game.
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