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Old 01-26-2013, 03:54 PM   #1
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Default If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

ABA:

regular season - 28.7/12.1/4.8/2.4/4.0 on .504/.322/.778 shooting
playoffs - 31.1/12.9/5.1/1.6/1.7 on .519/.250/.795 shooting
1974 Finals - 28.2/11.4/5.0/1.8/1.4 on .513/.333/.750 shooting
1976 Finals - 37.7/14.2/5.3/3.0/2.2 on .590/--/.786 shooting*

1971-72 ABA All-ABA (2nd)
1971-72 ABA All-Rookie (1st)
1972-73 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1973-74 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1974-75 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1975-76 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1975-76 ABA All-Defensive (1st)

3xMVP (1973-74, 1974-75 co-MVP, 1975-76)
2xChampion (1974, 1976)

* (I don't have block/steal numbers at the moment, but in the closeout game J put up 31/19/5/5/5 against Bobby Jones; he also made 2 3's in the series, but I don't know the percentages)

NBA:

regular season - 22.0/6.7/3.9/1.8/1.5 on .507/.261/.777 shooting
playoffs - 21.9/7.0/4.2/1.7/1.7 on .486/.194/.779 shooting
1977 Finals - 30.3/6.8/5.0/2.7/0.8 on .543/--/.857 shooting
1980 Finals - 25.5/7.0/5.0/2.0/2.3 on .522/.250/.708 shooting
1982 Finals - 25.0/8.2/3.3/1.8/1.3 on .543/.000/.720 shooting
1983 Finals - 19.0/8.5/5.0/1.3/2.8 on .469/--/.800 shooting

1976-77 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1977-78 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

1xMVP (1980-81)
1xChampion (1983)

------------------

Now whether or not we *can* take his ABA seasons at face value is a big question in and of itself (though in his defense, when he played the leagues were at least comparable), but if we do...he has to be pretty high up there, don't you think?

Last edited by fpliii : 01-26-2013 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Also in your post, please note where you presently have him regardless of your stance on his ABA seasons.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

I have him outside the top 10 but top 15 for sure. His ABA career did hurt him because at the time the ABA was considered a lesser league but in my opinion they were parallel leagues. Very much the same.

I think he would rank higher if his ABA and NBA stats were combined for a total.

We would see him ranked higher and more talked about. He was considered one of the greatest and was still doing commercials and he was a NBA analysis on NBC.

It's just over the years people have forgotten him because of him being out of the spotlight but if we were to combine his totals. His career stats are up there with top 10 guys.

I would say he's definitely in tier 1 of basketball immortals that have played the game.

The name "Dr. J" is synonymous with basketball, so he has to be up there. I wish he gets more talked about on here and other forums.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9erempiree
I have him outside the top 10 but top 15 for sure. His ABA career did hurt him because at the time the ABA was considered a lesser league but in my opinion they were parallel leagues. Very much the same.

I think he would rank higher if his ABA and NBA stats were combined for a total.

We would see him ranked higher and more talked about. He was considered one of the greatest and was still doing commercials and he was a NBA analysis on NBC.

It's just over the years people have forgotten him because of him being out of the spotlight but if we were to combine his totals. His career stats are up there with top 10 guys.

I would say he's definitely in tier 1 of basketball immortals that have played the game.

The name "Dr. J" is synonymous with basketball, so he has to be up there. I wish he gets more talked about on here and other forums.

Thanks for the response.

That meshes up with everything I've heard from former players/analysts, as well as casual fans (like an Oscar Robertson; some people actually have him as the GOAT SF). Among relatively hardcore fans, he's fallen out of the first few tiers and some have him nearly outside of the top 25-30.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
ABA:

regular season - 28.7/12.1/4.8/2.4/4.0 on .504/.322/.778 shooting
playoffs - 31.1/12.9/5.1/1.6/1.7 on .519/.250/.795 shooting
1974 Finals - 28.2/11.4/5.0/1.8/1.4 on .513/.333/.750 shooting
1976 Finals - 37.7/14.2/5.3/--/-- on .590/--/.786 shooting*

1971-72 ABA All-ABA (2nd)
1971-72 ABA All-Rookie (1st)
1972-73 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1973-74 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1974-75 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1975-76 ABA All-ABA (1st)
1975-76 ABA All-Defensive (1st)

3xMVP (1973-74, 1974-75 co-MVP, 1975-76)
2xChampion (1974, 1976)

* (I don't have block/steal numbers at the moment, but in the closeout game J put up 31/19/5/5/5 against Bobby Jones; he also made 2 3's in the series, but I don't know the percentages)

3 steals, and 2.17 blocks per game.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
3 steals, and 2.17 blocks per game.

Thanks (I'll edit the OP)! Do you happen to know how many threes he attempted (so I can complete the statline)? I can probably go into the ProQuest archives when I have a chance to see if they were mentioned I guess.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Thanks (I'll edit the OP)! Do you happen to know how many threes he attempted (so I can complete the statline)?

No, I do not.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaRegul8r
No, I do not.

Ah okay, thanks for checking. I should have a chance later tonight, so I'll log in and see if they were mentioned in box scores/writeups.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Ah okay, thanks for checking. I should have a chance later tonight, so I'll log in and see if they were mentioned in box scores/writeups.

Stanford guys love researching....
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

The ABA had the three point line which gave Dr. J more room to work and not much in the way of quality centers. Without bigs to worry about the Doctor just dunked at will since he was virtually unguardable due to his first step and leaping ability.

Not to mention defense wasn't a primary concern.

It's hard to take his ABA years at face value since it was an inferior league, even though it had exceptional players like Barry, Gervin and Dr. J.

He is one of the first guys to change the game vertically like Thompson and Baylor and by all accounts was breathtaking in his ABA years, so his imprint on the game goes beyond statistics.

I think he is top 20 because of his impact on the game.

Had he went to the NBA earlier and not had contract issues that prevented him from doing so, he would most likely be much higher than that since he was physically not the same guy in the NBA he was in the ABA.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

I have Dr. J in the top 20, probably around 15, of all-time great NBA players. His ABA stats should not be taken lightly.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by upside24
The ABA had the three point line which gave Dr. J more room to work and not much in the way of quality centers. Without bigs to worry about the Doctor just dunked at will

Not like he wasn't dunking over bigs like Kareem and Walton when he got to the NBA or anything.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

I definitely think he's seriously underrated. I think a prime Dr. J would be the second or third best player in the league right now. He'd be behind LeBron but, because of being an excellent and better defender, prime/peak Dr. J might be better than current Durant.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderStruk022
I definitely think he's seriously underrated. I think a prime Dr. J would be the second or third best player in the league right now. He'd be behind LeBron but, because of being an excellent and better defender, prime/peak Dr. J might be better than current Durant.

Yeah, he was unstoppable like Kevin D. That's kind of a good analogy, because like KD, The Good Doctor was amazing on offense, and also like KD he often struggled/failed on defense. But that said, Erving NEVER had the outside shooting skill of KD. Sometimes I wonder if Kevin even has to look at the basket when he shoots - it's so automatic from almost anywhere!

Later on Dr. J's defense improved a lot, partly because of Doc's adjustment to the stronger rosters of the ABA, but also it's a testament to the greatness of his coach, Billy Cunningham.

He was high flyer no doubt about it!!
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: If we take Dr. J's ABA years at face value, where does he rank all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
Yeah, he was unstoppable like Kevin D. That's kind of a good analogy, because like KD, The Good Doctor was amazing on offense, and also like KD he often struggled/failed on defense. But that said, Erving NEVER had the outside shooting skill of KD. Sometimes I wonder if Kevin even has to look at the basket when he shoots - it's so automatic from almost anywhere!

Later on Dr. J's defense improved a lot, partly because of Doc's adjustment to the stronger rosters of the ABA, but also it's a testament to the greatness of his coach, Billy Cunningham.

He was high flyer no doubt about it!!

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