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Old 01-25-2013, 03:30 PM   #1
macmac
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Default Can someone explain to me...

Why raptors fans are rooting for 9th in the east versus say, 4th to 13th worst record? Makes no sense to me.

Personally, I'm rooting for playoffs but why are so many fans so adamant about giving away a 14th pick?
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Cause this years draft will be weak and giving away a late lottery pick won't sting as much as giving away a lottery pick next year.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

the average fan doesnt play in the games so they have the ability to hope fo losing games based on draft considerations. the players play for pride and want to win even if it means eight seed playoffs one and done! its about pride and winning and doing your best. Personally im damn sick of losing and I think if we made the playoffs that would be huge. last years supposed tanking and draft proved that hope and dreams dont always work because the draft isnt guaranteed. The only thing guaranteed is effort and these Raptors lately are playing TREMENDOUS team ball and effort. Ill gladly take 9th place and give away our pick but at least Ill know I had a team that was in it to the end and respectable to watch.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zan Tabak
Cause this years draft will be weak and giving away a late lottery pick won't sting as much as giving away a lottery pick next year.

The thing is, if Raptors finish with a worst record they have a higher chance to land a top three pick this year. You're telling me people would rather get rid of high draft pick this year for their own personal sense of justice over potentially landing a top three pick?? Makes absolutely no sense to me. I'd rather give the 7th pick this year over the 14th pick if it gives me a couple of percentage points more to try and land the first overall
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmac
The thing is, if Raptors finish with a worst record they have a higher chance to land a top three pick this year. You're telling me people would rather get rid of high draft pick this year for their own personal sense of justice over potentially landing a top three pick?? Makes absolutely no sense to me. I'd rather give the 7th pick this year over the 14th pick if it gives me a couple of percentage points more to try and land the first overall

Two words: Andrew Wiggins. I'd rather give up the pick this year and not lose next year's pick when we will likely still suck and might have a shot at a bona fide Canadian star.

C'mon 9th!
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by letshaveacorona
the average fan doesnt play in the games so they have the ability to hope fo losing games based on draft considerations. the players play for pride and want to win even if it means eight seed playoffs one and done! its about pride and winning and doing your best. Personally im damn sick of losing and I think if we made the playoffs that would be huge. last years supposed tanking and draft proved that hope and dreams dont always work because the draft isnt guaranteed. The only thing guaranteed is effort and these Raptors lately are playing TREMENDOUS team ball and effort. Ill gladly take 9th place and give away our pick but at least Ill know I had a team that was in it to the end and respectable to watch.

I agree with you as well. Personally, i don't care about building a championship contender because that requires such a fluke and won't happen within the next 3-4 years. Life is too short to root for wins 5 years down the line. I just want entertaining, winning, basketball.

But this question was more for the guys that keep saying they want to give the worst lottery pick possible, like it makes a difference to us where OKC picks...
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
Two words: Andrew Wiggins. I'd rather give up the pick this year and not lose next year's pick when we will likely still suck and might have a shot at a bona fide Canadian star.

C'mon 9th!

I think you are misinformed. I am pretty sure next year's pick is top 3 protected as well. And unless you think Wiggins will drop down to 6th overall, your comment is irrelevant.

So again, why are you rooting for a worse chance to get a top 3 pick this year?
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmac
I think you are misinformed. I am pretty sure next year's pick is top 3 protected as well. And unless you think Wiggins will drop down to 6th overall, your comment is irrelevant.

So again, why are you rooting for a worse chance to get a top 3 pick this year?
Next year is top 2 protected and the following is 1st protected. But anyways, yeah the 9th place thing is for the sting. Reality is, without some tremendous amount of luck we won't be getting a top 3 pick this year. So I personally prefer a run at the playoffs.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Why I'm rooting for losses:

1) It gets Colangelo (and hopefully others) fired more quickly.

2) If you have to give up a lottery pick, this is the year to do it. I don't care whether they give up the 4th pick or the 13th. In fact, if they lose the 4th pick then it's even more embarassing for the management.

3) Maybe the Raptors get lucky and get into the top 3 this year. For a team so lacking in top-tier talent, I'll take a top 3 pick in any draft.

4) Colangelo gets fired sooner!

5) Making the playoffs and being slaughtered in the first round accompllishes nothing positive. In fact, it more than likely leads management/ownership to believe that this team is "close". Much like the year when they won the Atlantic division only because the rest of the East was horrendous. What happened afterwards? The Raptors played true to their talent level and never did anything significant. You don't build a "winning atmosphere" with 1st round exits! Those are meaningless for the most part.

6) A horrible year could be the sign that the Raptors need to do a proper rebuild and only look to keep certain young and/or cheap players. Basically only Valanciunas and maybe Davis and Ross.

7) COLANGELO GETS FIRED.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Im not looking to bag on anyones comments as everyone has their opinion. But man im tired of hearing about ways to lose and reasons to lose. F*ck that you think the players are in their talking about hey guys lets lose a few games so that we can have a shot at Andrew Wiggins? These guys are balling right not. Davis and Amir are ballin there asses off. Demar is steppin up. Anderson is beasting this dude can ball. Calderon diddo. And thats that we got a stud center sitting on the bench and 7ft 1st round trade bait too.

Anyways have to get that off my chest cuz i read a commnent about winning culture.

I have to say you dont build a winning culture by losing. And you dont become a playoff type team or one that makes the finals without first having made the playoffs first round exit or not. I just want to see this team in the playoffs again please. Chicago was first round fodder for years before they put it together. Philidelphia diddo. Indiana wasnt a powerhouse ala oklahoma overnight. LA Clippers has some growing pains and traded for oe player that made them great, Chris Paul. Memphis signed Randolph as a free agent that put them up there. If you win players will sign here bottom line.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

My opinion has changed on the subject, mainly because of the guys we have on our roster now. I think making the playoffs would be a positive experience for a lot of those young guys, and it's possible we make a good move or 2 and we're at least a talented enough team to make the playoffs. Having said that I don't think we're gonna make it anyways but I wouldn't be mad if we did.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by letshaveacorona
Im not looking to bag on anyones comments as everyone has their opinion. But man im tired of hearing about ways to lose and reasons to lose. F*ck that you think the players are in their talking about hey guys lets lose a few games so that we can have a shot at Andrew Wiggins? These guys are balling right not. Davis and Amir are ballin there asses off. Demar is steppin up. Anderson is beasting this dude can ball. Calderon diddo. And thats that we got a stud center sitting on the bench and 7ft 1st round trade bait too.

Anyways have to get that off my chest cuz i read a commnent about winning culture.

I have to say you dont build a winning culture by losing. And you dont become a playoff type team or one that makes the finals without first having made the playoffs first round exit or not. I just want to see this team in the playoffs again please. Chicago was first round fodder for years before they put it together. Philidelphia diddo. Indiana wasnt a powerhouse ala oklahoma overnight. LA Clippers has some growing pains and traded for oe player that made them great, Chris Paul. Memphis signed Randolph as a free agent that put them up there. If you win players will sign here bottom line.
But what's the common factor in almost all those teams you mentioned? Top-tier talent. Rose and Paul are superstars. Then you look at Memphis and Gasol and Randolph are probably better than anyone on the Raptors. The best way to get top talent for a team like the Raptors is through the draft. Also not giving out stupid contracts to should-be-bench-players (Bargnani, Derozan, Fields, Kleiza) would help too.

Indiana and Philly? I wouldn't want the Raptors to aim to be like them. IMO, both of those teams are going top out as "2nd round at best" teams. I want the Raptors to be a legit conference contender at some point. That has happened only once in the entire existence of the Raptors.

Which of the long-term players on this team looks like they could start on a legitmately good playoff team? I'm a fan of Valanciunas' potential so maybe him. Lowry could but he's in his prime right now and on the verge of a big contract. Because I think the Raptors should be rebuilding, I'm not sure Lowry is a fit. When (if?) the Raptors become anything relevant, he likely won't be a big part of that.

How did those 1st round exits with Bosh build a "winning atmosphere" for the young players at that time? How did that positively affect say, Bargnani? It didn't. Making the playoffs doesn't mean a damn thing unless you actually get somewhere once you're there. Free agents aren't going to start considering the Raptors simply because they made the 1st round a couple times. That is not a winning atmosphere.

Also, players and coaches don't tank. The management does. When the goal of the management is to build a perpetually mediocre team, fans should be outraged.

Last edited by Qwyjibo : 01-25-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

Are the Raptors missing that 1a type guy, Sure they are but it doesnt mean they dont have a good team. And at the current pace I wouldnt bet on that type player coming from the draft. So maybe we can all throw out what if this. or what if that. The reality is that player will more than likely have to come via trade i.e someones overpaid player (Gay), unhappy player (Chris Paul traded to clippers from New Orleans) & (vince carter traded for golfballs to New jersey by toronto), Bad attitude player (zach randolph traded to Memphis from Clippers for Quentin Richardson), new managment direction player no longer needed ( Pau Gasol when he played for Memphis and was traded to LA) & (Kevin garnett traded to Celtics from Minnesota) or the riskier expiring deal contract (carmelo anthony traded to new york from Denver) ill stop here.

I know my hoops bro. At this point Its way more realistic that we trade for a stud then we draft one. Sorry bro otherwise you have good points on just not with you on blowing this thing up and hoping we can repeat what oklahoma did(once in a lifetime draft super team) and get Durant, westrook, ibaka, harden. Not gonna happen again for a long time bro.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

I definitely get where you're going with that, but the whole thing about it is, gettig a D-Rose, Lebron, Durant, whoever else is incredibly difficult to do. First of all because they don't come around very often, they are once in a generation type of players. And not just that, they're #1 picks. A team has to be both very bad and very lucky to get one. So I see it as a hard pressed suggestion to aim to be horrible every year until we pick up the next LBJ.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can someone explain to me...

And the difference hopefully this year is that Bargnani is either traded or forced to earn his minutes off the bench. Those Bosh era teams were soft bro this team although missing that 4th quarter stud plays tough and focused basketball. A different team then those Bosh teams that featured a soft Bargnani at Center.
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