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Old 02-06-2013, 01:20 PM   #46
Godzuki
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
First of all, Im not exaggerating... If you can find an exaggeration? point it out

secondly I dont need protection from due process... Like I said already, the government isnt protecting me by taking away American's right to a fair trial..

Thats treason.. plain and simple








^
None of this justifies a law that takes away due process and puts that decision in the hands of the president.

since he was 'Bin Laden of the internet' ? tell me, what crimes did he commit?


none of that justifies this law

You dont get to execute Americans based on what a saudi new station says..



Again godzuki... The government isnt protecting me from terrorists by taking away my right to a fair trial...

Please tell me how you think this law actually helps americans?




you dont get it...

this is about your right to a fair trial... If you dont value that? then I dont have time to waste here..

Only a fool gives away all his freedom in return for protection... And this is protection we dont want or need...

you dont need to violate one of the MAIN (the right to a trial and a lawyer) tenets of the constitution in order to protect the public..

like I said, only a fool would do that..


big difference between us here from what it looks like is you all are much more paranoid of our government than i am. the way i see it is Awlaki was taken out as part of a war on terror, is a very rare incident that isn't really applicable to most Americans because most Americans don't associate themselves with known terrorists or attempts to recruit radical islamists, therefore i have no fears whatsoever that they will be coming to take me out anytime soon. i'm fine with our government doing what it takes to keep us safe, and realize war or any of the stuff our special ops, CIA, or drones do overseas aren't always going to be politically correct or lawful, and i'm fine with that. i think there is a huge difference in perspective from those at home in America who want all of our soldiers and operatives to play nice and politically correct vs the reality of what they're dealing with over there based on limited info to even get an opportunity. the idea we MUST take him alive to face trial because he's American is just ridiculous to me. as far as i'm concerned even being over there associating with/around terrorists makes him obviously guilty.

and you are exaggerating his innocence, just like you didn't mention any of the stuff i cited from his wiki. you're trying your best to portray him as some innocent we wrongly killed when thats not true, and you have a whole lot less proof than whats known about him to characterize him as innocent of recruiting and associating with anti American terrorist organizations than him being guilty of that. i don't think our government would go to anywhere near those lengths if there wasn't definitive proof, and its pretty obvious if you factor in where he was and who he was guarded by at the time of his assassination.

i'll get a fair trial and so will most Americans unless you're in/around associating with known terrorists and important enough that our government deems a target. to act like there isn't a difference between him and the circumstances that led to his assassination that he put himself vs most Americans is just being disingenuous. i have 0 fear of not getting a fair trial, Awlaki not getting one is irrelevant to that for most Americans but i guess its a good paranoia ploy to scare everyone into thinking their rights will soon be taken away. i guess...

Last edited by Godzuki : 02-06-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #47
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

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Old 02-06-2013, 01:30 PM   #48
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Had something like this surfaced during the Bush administration all the Obama nut slurpers would be calling for W to be tried for treason.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:00 PM   #49
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Anybody want to bet with me about America collapsing into a ruin in the next 10 years are so?

If it doesn't you pay me $10,000

If it does I'll give you 50 gallons of gas.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:04 PM   #50
longhornfan1234
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Macho Man
Anybody want to bet with me about America collapsing into a ruin in the next 10 years are so?

If it doesn't you pay me $10,000

If it does I'll give you 50 gallons of gas.
I'll bet you. The economy is coming along. I only make 86,000 a year, so I can't afford to bet you 10,000. 1,000?
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:08 PM   #51
The Macho Man
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
I'll bet you. The economy is coming along. I only make 86,000 a year, so I can't afford to bet you 10,000. 1,000?

Fine, but you're only getting 5 gallons of gas then.

I'll pm you in 10 years.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:09 PM   #52
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stempel, HERB
KevinNYC is prepping a 5 paragraph response showing how terribly misinformed you are. There will be a slight delay as he wraps up his loser leaves ish duel with milwad.



I've been waiting for it the entire time this topic has been up. Must wait a little longer I guess.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:34 PM   #53
KevinNYC
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stempel, HERB
KevinNYC is prepping a 5 paragraph response showing how terribly misinformed you are.

Um, why would it take 5 paragraphs? It's simple: read Obama's Nobel speech, and then come back and tell me what's objectional with it or what's hypocritical about it.

I'm not sure exactly Rufus's issue is with it, but I think some people's issue with it is a superficial understanding about Pacifism (Or that Obama somehow campaigned for the award.) Obama's not a pacifist and the Nobel Committee knew that; it was pretty clear from his presidential campaign he was going to continue waging war. It's also seems to be ignorant of the fact that the Peace prize has gone to combatants previously. Either way, Obama spent the speech discussing how the use of force can be used to advance peace and exploring the requirements and contradictions involved in trying to wage a just war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stempel, HERB
There will be a slight delay as he wraps up his loser leaves ish duel with milwad.
Didn't me in my Macho Man costume not settle that definitively?

Last edited by KevinNYC : 02-06-2013 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #54
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
I'm not sure exactly Rufus's issue is with it


I don't give a shit what Mr. Peace said in his speech. The Nobel committee is a joke when it comes to that prize anyway. Obama won it because he isn't W. Nice. Good for him. As for my objections with drone warfare I've always had objections to using drones or any kind of surgical strike that could kill innocent civilians in a country upon which we have not declared war. It only stands to reason that I am dead set against using them on US citizens.

Obama is a cold-hearted baby killer but now it's not just little brown babies with unpronounceable names he's coming after. It turns out wrapping up in the constitution will not stop a drone warhead. Of course this is outrageous hyperbole, but you get my point
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:36 PM   #55
Rasheed1
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzuki
big difference between us here from what it looks like is you all are much more paranoid of our government than i am. the way i see it is Awlaki was taken out as part of a war on terror, is a very rare incident that isn't really applicable to most Americans because most Americans don't associate themselves with known terrorists or attempts to recruit radical islamists, therefore i have no fears whatsoever that they will be coming to take me out anytime soon. i'm fine with our government doing what it takes to keep us safe, and realize war or any of the stuff our special ops, CIA, or drones do overseas aren't always going to be politically correct or lawful, and i'm fine with that. i think there is a huge difference in perspective from those at home in America who want all of our soldiers and operatives to play nice and politically correct vs the reality of what they're dealing with over there based on limited info to even get an opportunity. the idea we MUST take him alive to face trial because he's American is just ridiculous to me. as far as i'm concerned even being over there associating with/around terrorists makes him obviously guilty.

and you are exaggerating his innocence, just like you didn't mention any of the stuff i cited from his wiki. you're trying your best to portray him as some innocent we wrongly killed when thats not true, and you have a whole lot less proof than whats known about him to characterize him as innocent of recruiting and associating with anti American terrorist organizations than him being guilty of that. i don't think our government would go to anywhere near those lengths if there wasn't definitive proof, and its pretty obvious if you factor in where he was and who he was guarded by at the time of his assassination.

Quote:
i'll get a fair trial and so will most Americans unless you're in/around associating with known terrorists and important enough that our government deems a target. to act like there isn't a difference between him and the circumstances that led to his assassination that he put himself vs most Americans is just being disingenuous. i have 0 fear of not getting a fair trial, Awlaki not getting one is irrelevant to that for most Americans but i guess its a good paranoia ploy to scare everyone into thinking their rights will soon be taken away. i guess...

A couple of things:

first..I'm basing my comments on a simple idea..not paranoia. The constitution guarantees Americans the right to a trial by a jury of their peers. No charges? You say you believe they wouldnt do anything without definite proof...well if they have proof, then a trial should be easy then... Thats no excuse to try and create new power in the executive branch where it doesnt belong. That part of our system works fine.. We dont need them f*cking with it.. That doesnt mean I think Al Awlaki is innocent. If people wants these rights to remain, then you have to protect them... You can.t just assume that the government would never take that power with the intent to abuse it...What's the government's track record when it comes to abusing power?? Not good. No offense to politicians, but they arent to be trusted. I like the idea that Americans are due a fair trial and I dont want them screwing with it because of these senseless wars. throughout history, wartime has always been the time when governments have been able take away the freedoms of the public... Almost always in the name of more protection..

Im not inclined to trust the government's word on this subject.

If the government is going to kill Americans? they need to provide some kind of discernable proof that the person is what the state says they are.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:10 PM   #56
KevinNYC
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

More stuff seems to be coming out today.

Quote:
Reversing its course, the White House will now brief members of Congress on the legal justifications for drone strikes against U.S. citizens, an administration official said Wednesday night.
"Today, as part of the president's ongoing commitment to consult with Congress on national security matters, the president directed the Department of Justice to provide the congressional intelligence committees access to classified Office of Legal Counsel advice related to the subject of the Department of Justice White Paper," the official said.
The Justice Department paper, first obtained by NBC News, concluded that the United States can legally order the killing of American citizens believed to be al-Qaida leaders.

Members of Congress have expressed serious reservations about the memo. On Wednesday, Rep. Ron Wyden, D-Ore. and a member of the House Intelligence Committee, told NBC News Radio that the memo “doesn’t answer the central questions” revolving around an important policy decision: "When does the government have the legal right to kill an American?"
"The administration has essentially been stonewalling the committee and myself and others for over two years by not actually making that memo available with someone willing to answer questions about it," Wyden said.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:20 PM   #57
D-Rose
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Default Re: Obama Administration's dangerous memo on drones released

I don't see how anyone can defend Obama for this doctrine as a whole. I voted for him and support the majority of his policies, but this is a total hell no from me.
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