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Old 02-08-2013, 07:20 PM   #61
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by Balla_Status
Right but I'm talking about the trend in robbery statistics in Texas. Is it going downward, upward, lateral, etc.

do you know for sure that there been a large increase in gun ownership in texas over the past couple years? the trend in robbery statistics doesnt mean anything in the context of this discussion unless the % of texans that own guns has been changing over the same time period.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:27 PM   #62
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by Nanners
do you know for sure that there been a large increase in gun ownership in texas over the past couple years? the trend in robbery statistics doesnt mean anything in the context of this discussion unless the % of texans that own guns has been changing over the same time period.
we know that in the US overall ownership has gone up while crime goes down...

correlation =/= causation but I can see that the exact opposite happened in Great Britain...gun ownership went down while crime rate went up
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:32 PM   #63
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
we know that in the US overall ownership has gone up while crime goes down...

correlation =/= causation but I can see that the exact opposite happened in Great Britain...gun ownership went down while crime rate went up

you are entirely correct that correlation =/= causation, a lot of things have changed in the US overall other than just gun ownership during the last two decades that crime rates have been dropping.

NYC crime rates were horrible in the 80s, but today NYC is a very safe city. New York is possibly the most strongly anti-gun state in this entire country. Do you think the change in crime rates in NYC has anything to do with gun ownership?
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:42 PM   #64
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by Nanners
you are entirely correct that correlation =/= causation, a lot of things have changed in the US overall other than just gun ownership during the last two decades that crime rates have been dropping.

NYC crime rates were horrible in the 80s, but today NYC is a very safe city. New York is possibly the most strongly anti-gun state in this entire country. Do you think the change in crime rates in NYC has anything to do with gun ownership?
My own personal belief is that there are many things contributing to the crime rate going down, I think that the US population is actually advancing despite the bad rap people like to give us, we are getting smarter. I'm not sure about NYC in general, but I bet that gun ownership is one of the factors that lowers it in the US...burglary in general I think is affected the most.


I think there are several tiers...NO GUNS AT ALL being the tier with the lowest crime rate, then after that there is an area where few guns makes for a very high crime rate, and then going higher lowers it from there...and then there is probably a tier where a ridiculous amount that we have not seen yet then makes it go back up.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:59 PM   #65
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by Hazard
People get hit by lightning more often that those school shootings occur. If you're bent out of shape cause a single nut job shot up a school you need to get your priorities straight.
I'm with you, but that's why this bill was proposed in the first place, right: for school shootings? Why else should a teacher be armed in a classroom?
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:16 PM   #66
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by ace23
I'm with you, but that's why this bill was proposed in the first place, right: for school shootings? Why else should a teacher be armed in a classroom?
A teacher should not be armed in a classroom. If I'm a student planning to shoot up a classroom and I know the teacher is armed, guess who I'm going for first? This bill wont save anyone, it exists only to appease gun toting rednecks. There is no rational thought behind it, just playing on people's crocodile tears and useless paranoia.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #67
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
we know that in the US overall ownership has gone up while crime goes down...

correlation =/= causation but I can see that the exact opposite happened in Great Britain...gun ownership went down while crime rate went up

.... in the early 90s. The Violent Crime Rate in Britain has been declining for some time, despite the lack of armed citizens:



What's interesting is that for the same time period as the one you posted, the US violent crime rate was also increasing:



For reference, your (old) chart:


Last edited by RaininThrees : 02-08-2013 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:20 PM   #68
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazard
A teacher should not be armed in a classroom. If I'm a student planning to shoot up a classroom and I know the teacher is armed, guess who I'm going for first? This bill wont save anyone, it exists only to appease gun toting rednecks. There is no rational thought behind it, just playing on people's crocodile tears and useless paranoia.
Yeah, I agree, but why do you think a bill like this should be applied to urban schools?
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #69
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace23
Yeah, I agree, but why do you think a bill like this should be applied to urban schools?
I don't think it should, I just see more rationale behind it, cause there is real danger in urban schools. I myself have witnessed gang initiations, race wars etc. That's more of a topic of self defense rather than trying to stop lighting from striking. I would rather have schools install metal detectors, that's how it was in my school. People still got their ass beat bad, but no one got shot.

Last edited by Hazard : 02-08-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:30 PM   #70
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

Quote:
Originally Posted by ace23
Yeah, I agree, but why do you think a bill like this should be applied to urban schools?

Instead of guns, why not give tazers that shoot those barbs like 20 feet? If they have to be guns, why not beanbag rounds/rubber bullets? Those things can stop people easily, especially in the close quarters of a classroom... And they won't kill students if the teacher flips out.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:35 PM   #71
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Default Re: Bill Allowing Armed Teachers Clears Oklahoma Panel

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Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
Instead of guns, why not give tazers that shoot those barbs like 20 feet? If they have to be guns, why not beanbag rounds/rubber bullets? Those things can stop people easily, especially in the close quarters of a classroom... And they won't kill students if the teacher flips out.

The bean bag lobby doesn't have as much money.
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