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Old 02-07-2013, 11:06 PM   #31
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

No i have to disagree, not sure if he's been better than Harden.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
You know what, you're right.


Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA. He should be 1st Team All-NBA. The only reason he isn't is because the coach can't run any kind of offense and isn't more than a high school coach, plus Kobe is nothing but a chucker. We all know that Howard, bad back and all, would be an MVP candidate on any other team. Hell, he's leading the league in rebounds.


Where does he rank in the MVP race? Top 5?


Harden has played better this year...but that's only because Lebron is on the Heat. So let's disregard what's actually happened and judge his season based on what we know could happen. You're 100% right. That's how it should work. Absolutely. It's not retarded at all. Tell me the math thing again. I want to learn. Teach me. Please.


Shut the **** up. Evaluate players or evaluate their season? That's exactly the point I'm making. I think Wade is probably the 2nd best player in the world if he's healthy and not taking a back seat to Lebron. But he's never 100% and he has taken a back seat and thus has not passed Bryant. But please tell me I don't know how to evaluate, when your dumb ass can't bother to recognize where one argument ends and where another begins.

Kobe and Harden are two different conversations. Kobe has earned the presumptive benefit of the doubt, in any case. Kobe has been better than Wade this year. Harden has not.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

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Originally Posted by DatAsh
He's been the best SG over the last few weeks, but Kobe still his him beat for the year.
Listen to this green devil, he knows what he' talking about
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

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Originally Posted by Rysio
how can he be the best shooting guard if he cant shoot.

good point
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:24 PM   #35
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

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Originally Posted by jrong
Kobe and Harden are two different conversations. Kobe has earned the presumptive benefit of the doubt, in any case. Kobe has been better than Wade this year. Harden has not.



Harden has had more impact on the Rockets this season than Wade has had on the Heat. And I don't mean value, relative to importance or any of that. Harden is not only scoring a lot more and averaging a point and a half per attempt, he's had more assists, and has done it at a higher volume. He's also the main guy on his team, bringing everyone into play. Wade has played better defense and rebounded a half rebound more. Harden is a much better offensive player this season. By a lot.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Wade cannot and should not be compared to Kobe and Harden this year. Their situations are completely different so it really skews how to evaluate the players. Both Kobe and Harden have as many touches as they need and have carte blanche to do whatever they want on offense, while Wade has to adjust his game off the ball to the best player in the league.

That being said, there is no way that Harden is a better basketball player than Wade. You give Wade the same freedom on offense that Kobe and Harden have this would be a completely different argument.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:04 AM   #37
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

James Harden says hi, and I'm including defense.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:12 AM   #38
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Give me Wade over Harden. Even statistically its insanely close. Harden's been even more inconsistent than Wade this year, so that's not an excuse.

Even in Kobe's case. People ignore his poor play since LA fans blame it all on the teammates, and believe it or not, that subconsciously sticks in peoples minds even if they don't believe it at the time.
Want the proof? Wade has 6 games shooting less than 40% this season. Kobe has double that. People have just made more of Wade's failures, where as Kobe's teammates have been berated by LA fans. Its hilarious really.

Give me Wade over both anyway. Just because hes taking less shots, and playing a different role, doesn't mean hes declined. People seemed to give Manu the credit for being the 3rd best at one time even though there were SG's putting up better stats. Similar thing is happening in Wade's case.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:29 AM   #39
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
Give me Wade over Harden. Even statistically its insanely close. Harden's been even more inconsistent than Wade this year, so that's not an excuse.

Even in Kobe's case. People ignore his poor play since LA fans blame it all on the teammates, and believe it or not, that subconsciously sticks in peoples minds even if they don't believe it at the time.
Want the proof? Wade has 6 games shooting less than 40% this season. Kobe has double that. People have just made more of Wade's failures, where as Kobe's teammates have been berated by LA fans. Its hilarious really.

Give me Wade over both anyway. Just because hes taking less shots, and playing a different role, doesn't mean hes declined. People seemed to give Manu the credit for being the 3rd best at one time even though there were SG's putting up better stats. Similar thing is happening in Wade's case.
Exactly. If Wade had the green light, all his 6/15 games would've turned into Kobe's 10/24 games. He would've scored at least 8 more points in those games and bumped him up in the scoring average to like 24-26 PPG. He'd be shooting 48% instead of 51%, but probably lose a few more games. I guess people much rather see that.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:18 AM   #40
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Take whoever you want, but there's nothing close about stats between Wade and Harden. Harden scores more, assists more, steals more, gets more points per attempt, shoots a higher percentage from the FT line and gets there more, shoots higher from the 3. Wade has the higher FG%, his RPG are higher, he ha fewer turnovers and and more blocks...but you look across the stats, it's not close. Even if you account for the disparity in minutes. So that argument is just the argument of a Heat fan.


In context, you're full of shit. There's no argument for Wade having a better season than either guy. If you would prefer him, either because the way he's playing as the 2nd option to Lebron is better for the Heat, or because you think he'll be the better player when it counts, that's fine. I can respect that and to some extent I agree.


But there's no argument on who has been better. None at all. Harden hasn't been inconsistent at all. What, he's had a bad game here and there or a bad stretch? How has he been inconsistent? He hasn't. He leads his team. Wade's impact is not close to Harden's this season. Kobe has been terrific all season. If you watch the games and conclude that his presence is a problem, for whatever reason, then you're having a different conversation...but that would be one thing. If you watch the games and conclude that his level of play is the problem, then you're stupid. If you argue that Wade has been better because he would do better with more opportunities, then you're not making any sense.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:28 AM   #41
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

I'd ay wade is a better player than harden overall but harden still has had the better season. Surprisingly tho wade makes more shots than harden as a 2nd option while playing 4 minutes less. It's the free throws that harden draws that puts him over the top. But on the field wade is still a better scorer and defender especially if he were the 1a on his team.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:32 AM   #42
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

I'm pretty sure the All NBA teams will sort out who's the best shooting guard this year. (Hint it won't be Wade) 20,5,5 is the best shooting guard in the league yeah right
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:56 AM   #43
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

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Originally Posted by longtime lurker
I'm pretty sure the All NBA teams will sort out who's the best shooting guard this year. (Hint it won't be Wade) 20,5,5 is the best shooting guard in the league yeah right

Not that I think he should be on the All-NBA first team (CP3 and Parker are probably the guards today; if CP3 misses much more time Kobe takes his spot), but it's a media award. Doesn't mean much in the scheme of things.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:07 AM   #44
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by longtime lurker
I'm pretty sure the All NBA teams will sort out who's the best shooting guard this year. (Hint it won't be Wade) 20,5,5 is the best shooting guard in the league yeah right

It's 21/5/5 on 51% shooting with 1 blk and 1.5 stls in 34 minutes while taking 15.5 shots. Once again, if you think Wade has declined from superstar status, you don't understand math.

For his role, I don't know what else you can ask from him. I have only two criticisms: FT shooting and consistency, as he continues to work his knee back to 100%. But, as long as he maintains his all-around game and keeps his FG% and efficiency high, he's basically maxing out the production that anyone could provide given that number of touches.

Think it's easy for an instinctive #1 to compress his efficiency and maintain commensurate production in a secondary role? Remember what happened when LeBron tried to do it in the 2011 Finals?

(Food for thought: LeBron is a better alpha than Wade (by less than you would think, though), but LeBron can ONLY be an alpha. But, Wade can be an alpha or a beta. LeBron can only do his job, but Wade can do James's job or his own (his current job) So who is more valuable?)

...Oh, and the All-NBA teams sorting out the best players? Awards that are voting-based? Did you really just type that?
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:29 AM   #45
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Default Re: Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Take whoever you want, but there's nothing close about stats between Wade and Harden. Harden scores more, assists more, steals more, gets more points per attempt, shoots a higher percentage from the FT line and gets there more, shoots higher from the 3. Wade has the higher FG%, his RPG are higher, he ha fewer turnovers and and more blocks...but you look across the stats, it's not close. Even if you account for the disparity in minutes. So that argument is just the argument of a Heat fan.


In context, you're full of shit. There's no argument for Wade having a better season than either guy. If you would prefer him, either because the way he's playing as the 2nd option to Lebron is better for the Heat, or because you think he'll be the better player when it counts, that's fine. I can respect that and to some extent I agree.


But there's no argument on who has been better. None at all. Harden hasn't been inconsistent at all. What, he's had a bad game here and there or a bad stretch? How has he been inconsistent? He hasn't. He leads his team. Wade's impact is not close to Harden's this season. Kobe has been terrific all season. If you watch the games and conclude that his presence is a problem, for whatever reason, then you're having a different conversation...but that would be one thing. If you watch the games and conclude that his level of play is the problem, then you're stupid. If you argue that Wade has been better because he would do better with more opportunities, then you're not making any sense.

Level of play and negative presence is a direct correlation, so yes, it is linked and does matter.

As for Harden, not inconsistent? Really?
After having two huge games to start off, he goes on to shoot under 35% in 7 games in the first month. While the other 7 being over 40%, and one being in between 35-40%.
What would you call that? Consistent?

He had a 4 game stretch of not shooting above 30%.
He has 16 games shooting under 40% this season. That's 1 in every 3 games.
Hes had 5 games shooting under 25% this season.
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