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Old 02-16-2013, 04:55 AM   #46
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by knickswin
I am an atheist who has NO PROBLEM with Jesus Christ (who probably didn't even exist). The message of LOVING THY BROTHER is great. I am down with love, considerateness, and empathy. To me, they give life meaning.

HOWEVER there is no God and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional and/or in denial.
how can you be so sure? Not believing in the Christian God is one thing, but how can you be so sure there isn't a creator?
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:16 AM   #47
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by Legend of Josh
I agree with you. But, it wasn't like atheists were being hunted like witches and burned at the stake either.

Well they have been. And they are to this day. It is actually still illegal in some countries to be an atheist, and if you are found out you can be sentenced to death or imprisonment. In fact it is kind of insulting to say that they haven't been persecuted in any way. In the same way it would be insulting to flat out deny that any person or group of people have been persecuted.

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Also, and this is just my opinion, I feel like the poles have shifted to your very point. It's almost as if you're a believer, you're automatically labeled an idiot. Unable to think for yourself. Brainwashed. Maybe back in the day atheists were heavily mocked and ridiculed, but today, wouldn't you agree it seems almost the opposite, especially when talking about young adults, and even young teenagers.

I think it really just comes down to where you are. If I attended a Christian school or fundamentalist church I would expect some mocking and name calling (at least in some places - not all) - and if I were still a child or even teenager I would probably hide my atheism. Also in American politics it is very unlikely an open atheist will for the near future be able to become president.

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Are there dumb as shit believers out there? Yes, most certainly. However, I think it's a bit unfair for a typical average atheist these days (especially the younger newly enlightened type) to label any and all believers as dumbasses, etc. without really having a solid understanding of the whole God debate thing. Many atheists are very quick to pull the trigger and insult a religious person (ESPECIALLY a Christian) without any real merit behind it.

People change. I was far more arrogant and vocal when I was younger. This happens in all groups though. Although I do have to say that I have encountered religious people calling out atheists for attacking them when all they've really tried to do is challenge their belief system. The believer might not like it, and they have the right to be offended, but just because they are offended doesn't make them right. If they tried to leave the conversation/debate and the atheist kept harassing them then I would say that is an attack. But if it is in the confines of the discussion then it is not.

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While there are many religious people who think/feel they're intellectual superior to non-believers, there are certainly WAY MORE atheists who feel they're the ones who are mentally superior, and that believers are WAY MORE mentally inferior. Like a rabbit v. turtle race comparison level. Religious people don't go around mocking atheists 24/7 365, but we know atheists do. I'm not saying ALL religious or ALL atheists, I'm just saying on average.

I can't agree or disagree with that. I honestly don't know how to find that out. Either way I'm not bothered. If someone wants to try and flaunt their imagined superiority then they probably have other issues they need to deal with.

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The part I really don't get... is why Christianity is attacked so fiercely? Why do atheists hate Jesus Christ so much? Let's suppose JC never even lived. Let's suppose there is no God, etc ... why exactly are so many atheists just THAT ragingly mad at Christ? I mean, I'm talking real hardcore insults, jokes, mockery. I've always found that interesting and enigmatic.

I think many atheists hate Jesus Christ more than say a Hitler, Stalin or even Judus haha. Why?

I can't speak for all atheists, but not a lot of them don't hate Jesus at all because they don't believe he existed - or he at least isn't who the bible portrays him to be. Again is Christianity being attacked or is it being challenged? Remember this is a belief system that right now has a very strong influence over society. Most atheists are secularists, and that is where there motivation for challenging Christianity comes from. If Christianity were in a vacuum and people were able to believe it without it influencing other people then no one would care. Believe what you want. The problem is that it does influence our laws and politics.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:50 AM   #48
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by miller-time
Every star you look at you are looking back in time (sometimes billions of years). We don't need to go back in time to see what was happening at the early stages of the universe because light and other radiation from those events is still traveling towards us.

SO there is proof that earth was created by the big bang because of the radiation from the stars?? i dont see what point you are trying to make here...
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:21 AM   #49
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
SO there is proof that earth was created by the big bang because of the radiation from the stars?? i dont see what point you are trying to make here...

I was responding to your point about whether we can "go back" and study the universe in its infancy. And we can because all of that information is right in front of us now. We don't need to go back in time to understand how the universe formed we just need to look up (and also do a bit of physics and that).
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #50
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
Please tell me more about how scientists witnessed the big bang
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcds5Ob59Dg

http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/research/...b_pillars.html



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and the evolution of bacteries into apes and humans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZCL3gv9kEM

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ngle-ancestor/

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture09014.html
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:47 AM   #51
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by miller-time
I was responding to your point about whether we can "go back" and study the universe in its infancy. And we can because all of that information is right in front of us now. We don't need to go back in time to understand how the universe formed we just need to look up (and also do a bit of physics and that).
There is no information or proof that dates back billions of years ago. If there was the big bang would be a fact and not a theory. Like i said they can only suppose what happened. Stars dont add any truth to the big bang.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:56 AM   #52
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
There is no information or proof that dates back billions of years ago. If there was the big bang would be a fact and not a theory. Like i said they can only suppose what happened. Stars dont add any truth to the big bang.

The fact is that stars and galaxies are billions of light years away (and moving away from us). The theory is the model used to explain this phenomena. Theories don't become facts, theories explain facts.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:57 AM   #53
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism


So...i asked you to tell me more more about how they WITNESSED it. Because the OP claimed that we weren`t here to witness the saying of the bible which means its false according to him. not some explanation they try to come up with. and even in that big bang theory link it says:

''Although generally accepted as the model for the origin and evolution of the universe, the Big Bang theory is not complete. For example, it does not explain what caused the initial expansion or why galaxies formed.''
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:02 AM   #54
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by miller-time
The fact is that stars and galaxies are billions of light years away (and moving away from us). The theory is the model used to explain this phenomena. Theories don't become facts, theories explain facts.

This is my point exactly. Atheists try to mock religions but they fail to see that the big bang is just a theory and not a proven fact. Its just a supposition of what might have happened.

If you think about it they consider the big bang as their God.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:15 AM   #55
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
This is my point exactly. Atheists try to mock religions but they fail to see that the big bang is just a theory and not a proven fact. Its just a supposition of what might have happened.

If you think about it they consider the big bang as their God.

The distinguishing difference is that it is based on empirical evidence. Observations can be repeated and experiments can be performed. We can disprove the big bang theory. At least we know the facts the theory is based on exist.

And I don't know of anyone that worships the big bang theory? If new evidence comes along people will discard the idea.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:19 AM   #56
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
So...i asked you to tell me more more about how they WITNESSED it. not some explanation they try to come up with.
There isn't some atemporal scientist out there, just watching things unfold. No one can personally witness past events. That doesn't mean that we can't examine evidence, and understand what happened. Do you reject the existence of the world prior to your earliest memory? Do you reject the existence of anything that you don't personally witness?


Quote:
and even in that big bang theory link it says:

''Although generally accepted as the model for the origin and evolution of the universe, the Big Bang theory is not complete. For example, it does not explain what caused the initial expansion or why galaxies formed.''
So? We don't know what it was like before the big bang, or what caused the big bang. That doesn't falsify observational evidence of the big bang. Knowing that it happened ≠ Knowing what caused it ≠ Knowing what preceded it.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #57
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by Inactive
There isn't some atemporal scientist out there, just watching things unfold. No one can personally witness past events. That doesn't mean that we can't examine evidence, and understand what happened. Do you reject the existence of the world prior to your earliest memory? Do you reject the existence of anything that you don't personally witness?


So? We don't know what it was like before the big bang, or what caused the big bang. That doesn't falsify observational evidence of the big bang. Knowing that it happened ≠ Knowing what caused it ≠ Knowing what preceded it.

my friend did you even check my reply on the 1st page? i know sometimes sarcasm is not as evident on the internet but this is exactly what i wanted to prove to the OP
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:36 AM   #58
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by miller-time
The distinguishing difference is that it is based on empirical evidence. Observations can be repeated and experiments can be performed. We can disprove the big bang theory. At least we know the facts the theory is based on exist.

And I don't know of anyone that worships the big bang theory? If new evidence comes along people will discard the idea.

This is true. But that is the problem. There were numerous times scientists came up with a theory and then changed it later on to something different. And might change it again sometime in the future. There is nothing set in stones.

Yes the experiences can be repeated and all that but it doesnt mean that just because they can repeat it its necessarily the cause of the creation of the universe. There might be some other causes that they have yet to discover or simply cant understand.

To me its all about belief and faith
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:40 AM   #59
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by PistonsFan#21
my friend did you even check my reply on the 1st page? i know sometimes sarcasm is not as evident on the internet but this is exactly what i wanted to prove to the OP
So, your problem with the OP was entirely semantic? Based on the word "witness"? Or do we need to get into a discussion about how inferences drawn from evidence, which make falsifiable predictions, and are experimentally verified, are not the same as metaphysical speculation, and "just so" stories?
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:44 AM   #60
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

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Originally Posted by Inactive
So, your problem with the OP was entirely semantic? Based on the word "witness"? Or do we need to get into a discussion about how inferences drawn from evidence, which make falsifiable predictions, and are experimentally verified, are not the same as metaphysical speculation, and "just so" stories?

My problem with the OP is that he used ''not being a witness'' to disprove religions. So i asked him if he was able to witness the big bang because thats what he believes in...that simple. I even bolded that part to let him understand thats what i was referring to
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