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Old 03-02-2013, 04:10 PM   #91
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

While Religion is most definately BS, it's actually pretty clever to believe in a God (if you are not completely brainwashed of course). Religion is a tool (kind of like a medicine) that helps you deal with various aspects of your life, especially to cope with grief and loss. Just imagine being a parent of a child that dies, this would be absolutely devestating for religious and nonreligious people alike but religious people have access to lets call it the "heaven wonder pill". This "pill" enables them to believe that their child is now in a better place and in a reunion after life. For nonreligious people this option doesn't exist and while their belief is very likely the truth it's also much more brutal .. basically my child is death and doesn't exist anymore and I won't see it again.
And the good thing for religious people is that they never will notice that they were wrong. That's why you will never convince religious people no matter how good the arguments because it's not about the truth, they just want to keep their medicine.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:41 PM   #92
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

You guys talk about Christians/religious people as if we spoke a different language and weren't everyday folks you see around town, at school or at work, etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
I'm still waiting for you to wake up one day, come to your senses and laugh at yourself for being a gullible dumbass all these years.

I'm mentally stable. I used to be religious as I was raised that way. No problems in the home forced me to "abandon God" either. I just learned the power of critical thought.
Why respond to that, or better yet, why respond to him

Last edited by BuGzBuNNy : 03-02-2013 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:20 PM   #93
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
I'd say their response is proportional to the amount of arguments they have to hear about religion. If people claimed unicorns were true every day of the week they would probably talk about that too.
I completely disagree with what Christians believe in and see fundamental flaws in their dogma. Living in white suburbia, I am surrounded by people who always utter the name of their lord in everything and sometimes I feel suffocated by the amount of Christian propaganda around me. Yet I've never in my adult life started a religious argument with anyone who believes in what I believe to be fantasies. I mean, what's the point? What will you accomplish by doing so except stroke your own ego and alienate a person? Isn't knowing that you're right good enough that you would feel the need to show other people up? And I'm including situations where a person is actively trying to convert you or something. All you gotta do is walk away, not insult something the dude's believed in his whole life.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:38 PM   #94
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

As far as why challenge the religious stuff? For me, I think sometimes it gets to point where you gotta say "c'mon son"! Its difficult to play along 100% of the time.

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Old 03-02-2013, 06:42 PM   #95
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

It's not about playing along though. I don't let people think I'm a Christian ffs. I just ignore their religious stuff.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:47 PM   #96
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightprowler10
It's not about playing along though. I don't let people think I'm a Christian ffs. I just ignore their religious stuff.


what do you do when people ask you to pray for them?

or when you have people who equate everything to god, and even try to tell you that you yourself could have god's graces again if you just believe?

for me, at some I just tell them why I'm not a christian anymore and what I believe.

On the internet? its the internet, and the internet is a different animal (we're talking religion right now).

I always wondered why people are scared to talk politics and religion... Those are the 2 subjects that tell you the most about a person.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #97
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
what do you do when people ask you to pray for them?

or when you have people who equate everything to god, and even try to tell you that you yourself could have god's graces again if you just believe?

for me, at some I just tell them why I'm not a christian anymore and what I believe.

On the internet? its the internet, and the internet is a different animal (we're talking religion right now).

I always wondered why people are scared to talk politics and religion... Those are the 2 subjects that tell you the most about a person.
You're telling me that you tell people "no I won't pray for you because I don't believe in the existence of a god?". I mean, we're not talking about religion anymore then. People skills man. If someone asks you that question then that means they're in a bad place and you tell a white lie to make them feel better.

If someone tries to convert me (multiple people have) I just tell them politely that I don't see things the way they do and change the topic. People of all kinds can be handled without you having to challenge everything they believed in their whole lives.

As for your last sentence, I find out about people based on their actions in certain situations, not by finding out their religious beliefs and political affiliations. People will believe one thing and do another. One of those is more important than the other.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:28 PM   #98
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGzBuNNy
You guys talk about Christians/religious people as if we spoke a different language and weren't everyday folks you see around town, at school or at work, etc

I have a lot of Christian family members and friends. I don't ever spark up a debate with them or anything whenever they say they will "pray for me" or assume that I'm religious too.

They'd probably be shocked to find out how strong my atheist sentiment is, lol.


Quote:
Why respond to that, or better yet, why respond to him

I don't know. No self control. I agree that I should have left it alone. I shouldn't have even made this thread.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:32 PM   #99
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightprowler10
You're telling me that you tell people "no I won't pray for you because I don't believe in the existence of a god?". I mean, we're not talking about religion anymore then. People skills man. If someone asks you that question then that means they're in a bad place and you tell a white lie to make them feel better.

lol no I say something like "I dont pray, but Im pulling for ya. If you need something? let me know.

Quote:
If someone tries to convert me (multiple people have) I just tell them politely that I don't see things the way they do and change the topic. People of all kinds can be handled without you having to challenge everything they believed in their whole lives.

I dont think Im using the conversation as an opportunity to challenge folks. But if it comes up? it just does. In fact im the one that is usually challenged over why am I NOT a christian. I wont beat christians over the head, but I will say what I believe, and if they dont agree? then they just dont we can still be cool

In RL, the people I know already know what I think and I know many different kinds of people from many different walks of life.... We always seem to still respect and love each other even though we dont all have the belief systems.

Quote:
As for your last sentence, I find out about people based on their actions in certain situations, not by finding out their religious beliefs and political affiliations. People will believe one thing and do another. One of those is more important than the other.

that's cool, but people talking religion and politics doesnt need to be a taboo subject, and I dont feel it necessary to walk around on eggs shells all the time when dealing with religious people. People's actions matter, but so do things like religion and politics. to me, it is what it is. Saying "they'll never change" isnt necessarily true. I was religious myself. I know people evolve grow and change.

Last edited by Rasheed1 : 03-02-2013 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 03-02-2013, 07:47 PM   #100
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Did you leave Christianity on your own or did someone convince you? I'm not saying people won't change, just that people won't change because of your/my opinions and need to find their own paths.

I didn't mean that you should avoid the subject like the plague though. I guess I had the mental picture of my FB friends picking fights with religious people for thanking their lord or that "Joakim Noah vs Biblical Noah" thread where it seemed like posters were simply looking for a debate. Those are the situations where I'd think to myself that there's no point in arguing anything and just move on. I mean, if someone tries to constantly "save me" I'll definitely let them know where the line is, so I don't think there's anything wrong with you're saying as long as you're not outright disrespectful.

Quote:
lol no I say something like "I dont pray, but Im pulling for ya. If you need something? let me know.

I'd ask the question that why even say "I don't pray"? Saying the rest would be perfect in that situation. Why would you feel the need to differentiate yourself from that person before offering your help?
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:14 PM   #101
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightprowler10
Did you leave Christianity on your own or did someone convince you? I'm not saying people won't change, just that people won't change because of your/my opinions and need to find their own paths.

It was a combination... No one person convinces you to do anything at a single point in time when it comes to religion. When I began to think in a totally rational manner in terms of religion as well as the rest of my life? thats when the process was put into motion. People who dont believe in my god would bring up logical points.. I'd argue them and that point in itself wouldnt convince me, but the accumulation of issues forces you (or at least it forced me) to go and research everything I could about christ, god, my religion, other religions. I was always taught that my god was the god of order. He is the truth. So I figure if I search for the truth? then he'll be at the end of the road when I get there.

Quote:
I didn't mean that you should avoid the subject like the plague though. I guess I had the mental picture of my FB friends picking fights with religious people for thanking their lord or that "Joakim Noah vs Biblical Noah" thread where it seemed like posters were simply looking for a debate. Those are the situations where I'd think to myself that there's no point in arguing anything and just move on.

yeah on the internet, the conversation gets warped. I dont think there is any value in taunting people when they do their religious thing (like say 'praise the lord for this or that'). But in RL I f*ck with and am related to alot of christians, muslims, jews, (sh*t even rastas and 5% god's and earths ). And the conversations are different because its face to face and we connect as human beings as well as whatever religion we believe in. But I know some feverishly religious people, and sometimes you have slow them down with a good "cmon son"!



Quote:
I mean, if someone tries to constantly "save me" I'll definitely let them know where the line is, so I don't think there's anything wrong with you're saying as long as you're not outright disrespectful.




Quote:
I'd ask the question that why even say "I don't pray"? Saying the rest would be perfect in that situation. Why would you feel the need to differentiate yourself from that person before offering your help?

mostly because I dont. I dont do that. I do not think it is something I should avoid admitting. Me offering to be a support for this person in any way I can is my version praying. I offer to actually do something to assist (I wouldnt say all that).

I mean if I asked a muslim to pour out a lil liquor for my nephew, he prolly read me the riot act

j/k For real tho. Im just basically saying that I dont want to try beat religious people up about it like people do on the net, but sometimes it just comes up and I just say what I believe without overdoing it.
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Old 03-02-2013, 08:27 PM   #102
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
but sometimes it just comes up and I just say what I believe without overdoing it.
When it all really boils down to it, the overdoing it part was exactly what I've been trying to advocate against.

I completely agree that debates on the internet tend to get warped. I think my problem is mostly with people who (ironically) get a holier than thou attitude on the net and we see things get completely out of hand.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:55 PM   #103
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightprowler10
Yet I've never in my adult life started a religious argument with anyone who believes in what I believe to be fantasies. I mean, what's the point? What will you accomplish by doing so except stroke your own ego and alienate a person? Isn't knowing that you're right good enough that you would feel the need to show other people up? And I'm including situations where a person is actively trying to convert you or something. All you gotta do is walk away, not insult something the dude's believed in his whole life.

I'm not so much talking about starting arguments as much as being engaged in either discussions or activism. A lot of the motivation for atheists to be heard is to promote secularization. If atheism is represented in the public and political arena then policies can be made that don't encroach on their lives.

There will always be atheists that just like the sound of their own voice and engage in pointless debates all of the time, but there are also reasons to not just turn away and agree to disagree. Religion does have an effect on the way society functions whether it is through law or just social interaction, and hiding away won't do anything to change these problems.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:39 PM   #104
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
Wait are you saying that neither evolution or the big bang theory have any proof?

Evolution has just as much questions as any religion. DNA is incredibly complex and how can meaningful and precise information be created by accident? Through mutation and natural selection.

Just look around you. So much life on this world hold a similarity in symmetry. Half of my face is identical to the other. The same with a dog, cat, horse, and so on. Random mutation and natural selection does a pretty crappy job of explaining this.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:46 PM   #105
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Default Re: Atheism vs. Theism

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoopaddict08
Just look around you. So much life on this world hold a similarity in symmetry. Half of my face is identical to the other. The same with a dog, cat, horse, and so on. Random mutation and natural selection does a pretty crappy job of explaining this.

Bilateral symmetry came pretty early in our evolutionary past. You know when they say "we share x amount of DNA with y animal"? These are the genes they are talking about. The ones that give order and structure and basic cellular function are the earliest to have developed and because evolution is a nested hierarchy they are genes we all share.
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