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Old 02-15-2013, 08:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Nonetheless it's Lebron's to lose. Durant was my favorite a month ago but this month Lebron pretty much put the award in the bag with his GOAT caliber play. Just don't tell me Parker>CP3 in the MVP race
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Tony Parker deserves 1st team All-NBA, but I doubt he'll get it. It's a popularity contest really. And everyone knows players like Kobe, CP3, Wade, and Westbrook are more popular than Parker.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
Duncan has been the Spurs best player this year and highest impact player this year IMO. Hell some have taken to say he's been the best bigman in the game. I have yet to hear a single person NOT call Chris Paul the best PG this year in the NBA. Chris Paul has been a better player than Tony Parker every single year of his career.

21 ppg, 7.5 apg, 3 rpg for Parker in 33 minutes.

17 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3 apg, 3 bpg in just 30 minutes a game for Duncan as the team's defensive anchor.

Both have identical win shares and similar impact metrics but Duncan again has more value to the success of the Spurs due to his defense.

Missing 12 games doesn't disqualify you from an MVP race and Paul's absence proved exactly why he's the true MVP of the league. Take Parker off the Spurs and they are just fine. Take CP3 off the Clippers and they fell apart bad DESPITE having one of the best backup PG's.

Paul is a better player, is more important to his team than Parker... therefor he's a much stronger MVP candidate. The teams are so close record wise that that's negligible.



Yea, but there's no argument for Duncan. I'm not trying to be all sure of my opinion, but there is no argument. It's like someone trying to argue Griffin on your team. There's no argument. Parker has been better than Duncan every step of the way. Duncan is the beneficiary of Parker much more than Parker is of Duncan. He's an anchor but he's not Gasol or Noah this year. Parker is their #1 playmaker and he runs their offense. Duncan still gets some assists abut the offense doesn't begin to go thru him. It all goes thru Parker. He's their guy throughout the game. He's their guy down the stretch of games. When Manu is on the floor with Parker, Duncan becomes the 3rd guy.


And, just as with Paul, Duncan has missed 12 games. You say that Parker is not that important to the Spurs...not to suggest this about Duncan, but the Spurs are 10-2 without him. BTW, one of those losses is when the big 3 were out, along with Danny Green, in Miami.


By your argument, that says a lot (in comparison) about his impact on the Spurs.


It's not close. And again, Paul could have an argument over Parker if he was playing every game. But he's missed 12 and that makes it just about impossible to argue him over Parker. The Clippers' record without Paul is indicative of how important he is to the Clippers. Watching the games, it actually tells as much of the story as a guy not playing can tell. But it doesn't (at least not rightfully) strengthen his argument for MVP. The fact is he hasn't been there to help for those 12 games.


Kenny Smith says Parker is the 3rd best player in the NBA this year. Despite not picking him for the all-star team, Charles has talked about Parker being even better this year...and last year Barkley had him as the 3rd best player in the NBA. And Chuck, despite his dislike for our teams, is as good an analyst as there is. There have been people talking about Parker having the better season. No one argues Parker being a better player than Paul. Paul is the best PG in basketball.


12 games doesn't disqualify you...but it's 12 games so far. So far that matters a lot. You couldn't argue that Paul is playing way better than Parker. So 12 games is a big deal and an obstacle for Paul to ovecome.


And again, Duncan is only more valuable to the Spurs in that he is Tim Duncan and he's the heart of the team. On the floor there is no argument for him being as important, as valuable, for having the impact that Parker has. Parker is much better, at this point.

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Old 02-15-2013, 08:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Yea, but there's no argument for Duncan. I'm not trying to be all sure of my opinion, but there is no argument. It's like someone trying to argue Griffin on your team. There's no argument. Parker has been better than Duncan every step of the way. Duncan is the beneficiary of Parker much more than Parker is of Duncan. He's an anchor but he's not Gasol or Noah this year. Parker is their #1 playmaker and he runs their offense. Duncan still gets some assists abut the offense doesn't begin to go thru him. It all goes thru Parker. He's their guy throughout the game. He's their guy down the stretch of games. When Manu is on the floor with Parker, Duncan becomes the 3rd guy.


And, just as with Paul, Duncan has missed 12 games. You say that Parker is not that important to the Spurs...not to suggest this about Duncan, but the Spurs are 10-2 without him.


It's not close. And again, Paul could have an argument over Parker if he was playing every game. But he's missed 12 and that makes it just about impossible to argue him over Parker.


Kenny Smith says Parker is the 3rd best player in the NBA this year. Despite not picking him for the all-star team, Charles has talked about Parker being even better this year...and last year Barkley had him as the 3rd best player in the NBA. And Chuck, despite his dislike for our teams, is as good an analyst as there is. There have been people talking about Parker having the better season. No one argues Parker being a better player than Paul. Paul is the best PG in basketball.


12 games doesn't disqualify you...but it's 12 games so far. So far that matters a lot. You couldn't argue that Paul is playing way better than Parker. So 12 games is a big deal.


And again, Duncan is only more valuable to the Spurs in that he is Tim Duncan and he's the heart of the team. On the floor there is no argument for him being as important, as valuable, for having the impact that Parker has. Parker is much better, at this point.

So let me verify. CP3 was 3rd in the MVP race all year long.. misses 12 games and now Parker>>>>>>CP3 in the MVP race with CP3 having zero case just because he missed games, although he's still eligible? ... just making sure I'm not misunderstanding you. Using Kenny and Charles as your argument is about the most ignorant thing you can do considering they don't know shit about basketball. Everything they say is outdated and wrong for the most part and you should know that by now.

This isn't mentioning that the Clippers were a .500 team without CP3 and a 32-9 team WITH CP3 at the top of the NBA. What does "most valuable" mean in terms of sports to you? Define it.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Personally the way I've always defined "MVP" is a combination of 3 things in this order priority wise.


1. How valuable you are to your team. (Steve Nash type MVP).

2. Individual talent/stats/superiority over all other players at your position, or being a top 5 player at the least in the NBA (Lebron James type MVP).

3. Being the best player on the team with a top 3 seed (Derrick Rose type MVP).


Tony Parker only meets one criteria and that's being on a top 3 team. He's not a top 5 player and the Spurs are just fine without him if need be. He doesn't have the stats of a D Rose, nor the impact on his team that the type 1 guys like Nash, CP3 have. Chris Paul on the other hand is the number 1 most valuable player to his team. Without him the Clippers offense and defense goes to shit. Chris Paul is also the 3rd best player in the game this year. Not to mention the Clippers still have a shot at a top 3 record and are a half game back of Miami right now of having that top 3 record, 1.5 games back of OKC, 4 games back of the Spurs.

CP3 meets all 3 criteria.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Not gonna happen.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

If Parker doesn't make all NBA 1st team than there's some ****ed up popularity shit going on. But I wouldn't be surprised, Kobe hasn't deserved the first team defense recently, its a shame they will probably put someone else instead of Parker.

LeBron deserves MVP though.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
So let me verify. CP3 was 3rd in the MVP race all year long.. misses 12 games and now Parker>>>>>>CP3 in the MVP race with CP3 having zero case just because he missed games, although he's still eligible? ... just making sure I'm not misunderstanding you. Using Kenny and Charles as your argument is about the most ignorant thing you can do considering they don't know shit about basketball. Everything they say is outdated and wrong for the most part and you should know that by now.

This isn't mentioning that the Clippers were a .500 team without CP3 and a 32-9 team WITH CP3 at the top of the NBA. What does "most valuable" mean in terms of sports to you? Define it.



Honestly, you just killed yourself this entire post.


First thing, so that we don't have to go back to it. You said you haven't heard anyone argue for Parker. I mentioned two guys. And you're stupid if you think they don't know shit about basketball. There are no analysts who know the game any better. And that's for fact. Don't be salty because of the Clipper skepticism. I'm not and I'm a Knicks fan.


Now, getting to it. The reason you're killing yourself here is because I didn't say any of that. Paul has not been #3 all year. Melo was up there for much of the year and you know that. More importantly, I have never had Paul at #3. I'd take him over any Western Conference guy but he hasn't been one of the 3 best players in the league this season, at any point. At least not for me. Wrong or not, I've never argued him that high. You don't know where I had him ranked or how high I had Parker ranked. The way you're talking, you would think I had Paul at #3 and Parker at #10 and then flipped.


Then you say that Paul misses 12 games and suddenly Parker is better...you say misses 12 games as if you're saying he missed 12 shots. 12 is a big enough number to affect, at this point in the season, the guy's MVP stock (or at least my personal opinion of it).


I thought Parker was better for most of the year. Then Paul missed a lot of games. I have no problem ranking Parker ahead of Paul for the year, even without missed games. With them, it's not even close to me. If you think Paul has been better then that's fine, but the impact of 12 games warrants attention. We're not talking about value, in essence. You know very well that level of play and time actually on the court (not in terms of minutes but games) are obviously important.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

You thought Parker was a better player than CP3 most this year ? Even worse than what I originally had you down for. As for Melo vs CP3 they definitely are debatable at 3 vs 4, bottom line is on all MVP boards I saw this year CP3 was number 3. I didn't say 12 games missed doesn't close the gap some but over an 82 game season, GTFO.

I think Parker is somewhere around 5 or 6 on the MVP board. Which is still fantastic and he's having a year worth praising. Lebron, Durant, CP3 and Melo are the top 4 and have been all year. You saying Barkley and Kenny are knowledgeable is downright laughable, especially after admitting you know the garbage they spew about the Knicks. Both guys constantly repeat outdated information about teams, have strong bias against Clippers+Knicks, strong favoritism towards Grizzlies+Heat etc.

I don't give a rats ass if they played or not, they fail to do a good job staying up on current, updated facts. If you want to hear knowledge listen to guys like Steve Smith or Greg Anthony who I have yet to hear spew bullshit like Kenny and Barkley. Not saying they are never wrong but when they talk about each team you can tell they are far, far... far more up to date and aren't talking out of their asses. The TNT and ESPN crews have become straight trash in terms of their knowledge of the game. NBA TV guys never give such failure analysis that I've seen.

Last edited by Clippersfan86 : 02-15-2013 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Honestly, you just killed yourself this entire post.


First thing, so that we don't have to go back to it. You said you haven't heard anyone argue for Parker. I mentioned two guys. And you're stupid if you think they don't know shit about basketball. There are no analysts who know the game any better. And that's for fact. Don't be salty because of the Clipper skepticism. I'm not and I'm a Knicks fan.


Now, getting to it. The reason you're killing yourself here is because I didn't say any of that. Paul has not been #3 all year. Melo was up there for much of the year and you know that. More importantly, I have never had Paul at #3. I'd take him over any Western Conference guy but he hasn't been one of the 3 best players in the league this season, at any point. At least not for me. Wrong or not, I've never argued him that high. You don't know where I had him ranked or how high I had Parker ranked. The way you're talking, you would think I had Paul at #3 and Parker at #10 and then flipped.


Then you say that Paul misses 12 games and suddenly Parker is better...you say misses 12 games as if you're saying he missed 12 shots. 12 is a big enough number to affect, at this point in the season, the guy's MVP stock (or at least my personal opinion of it).


I thought Parker was better for most of the year. Then Paul missed a lot of games. I have no problem ranking Parker ahead of Paul for the year, even without missed games. With them, it's not even close to me. If you think Paul has been better then that's fine, but the impact of 12 games warrants attention. We're not talking about value, in essence. You know very well that level of play and time actually on the court (not in terms of minutes but games) are obviously important.
I have DelusionalFan86 on ignore but judging by your quote I can picture him throwing a bitch fit real soon.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clippersfan86
You thought Parker was a better player than CP3 most this year ? Even worse than what I originally had you down for. As for Melo vs CP3 they definitely are debatable at 3 vs 4, bottom line is on all MVP boards I saw this year CP3 was number 3. I didn't say 12 games missed doesn't close the gap some but over an 82 game season, GTFO.

I think Parker is somewhere around 5 or 6 on the MVP board. Which is still fantastic and he's having a year worth praising. Lebron, Durant, CP3 and Melo are the top 4 and have been all year. You saying Barkley and Kenny are knowledgeable is downright laughable, especially after admitting you know the garbage they spew about the Knicks. Both guys constantly repeat outdated information about teams, have strong bias against Clippers+Knicks, strong favoritism towards Grizzlies+Heat etc.

I don't give a rats ass if they played or not, they fail to do a good job staying up on current, updated facts. If you want to hear knowledge listen to guys like Steve Smith or Greg Anthony who I have yet to hear spew bullshit like Kenny and Barkley. Not saying they are never wrong but when they talk about each team you can tell they are far, far... far more up to date and aren't talking out of their asses. The TNT and ESPN crews have become straight trash in terms of their knowledge of the game. NBA TV guys never give such failure analysis that I've seen.



I promise you couldn't be any more wrong on Barkley and Smith. It's stupid for you to think that way. Didn't Barkley predict Dallas winning? How many decades ago was this? Didn't he call all that LeBron had to do for the Heat to win last year? He doesn't give you legitimate basketball stuff?


What do you want? A guy to sit there and Dennis Scott you about shit than anybody can see? If you listen to them talk and you don't get anything out of it, then you're only limiting yourself in what you can learn. Every time they talk about anything, they go into it and they give you shit worth hearing and considering. They talk BASKETBALL and not just numbers and predictions. And they're usually still pretty solid with the latter, especially Charles.


The worst you could say about his bias is that he sticks to something a little too long...all that really means is he wants to see it and he's not down for predicting what will happen. And when he's wrong, he's usually right about something.


And on the 12 games bit...you're saying over 82 games blah blah. Well sure, over 82 games. You want me to project his missed time over 82 games? No, because who knows what happens the rest of the year. I said, repeatedly, to this point in the season. To this point in the season, he's missed more than 20% of the season. It's relevant for now. We'll see how it plays out over a full schedule. As long as he plays 70 games (which he's at now) then the games missed isn't too big a deal. But, just like either one could go up or down the rest of the year, guys can miss time the rest of the year. Paul could miss even more games, and Parker could end up missing more games than Paul does. Anything can happen. But, right now, Parker has certainly been better. And believe me, there's nothing ridiculous in arguing that Parker has been better while they've been on the court. It could even be wrong, but not ridiculous.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 02-15-2013 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:48 PM   #27
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

he might get a couple votes here and there, but me thinks lebron is winning this sh!t by a landslide.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
I promise you couldn't be any more wrong on Barkley and Smith. It's stupid for you to think that way. Didn't Barkley predict Dallas winning? How many decades ago was this? Didn't he call all that LeBron had to do for the Heat to win last year? He doesn't give you legitimate basketball stuff?


What do you want? A guy to sit there and Dennis Scott you about shit than anybody can see? If you listen to them talk and you don't get anything out of it, then you're only limiting yourself in what you can learn. Every time they talk about anything, they go into it and they give you shit worth hearing and considering. They talk BASKETBALL and not just numbers and predictions. And they're usually still pretty solid with the latter, especially Charles.


The worst you could say about his bias is that he sticks to something a little too long...all that really means is he wants to see it and he's not down for predicting what will happen. And when he's wrong, he's usually right about something.

You're seriously dense if you don't know the difference between prediction and analysis. I never said Barkley or Smith are bad with predictions necessarily. Both I'm sure have predicted champions etc but that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with sound analysis. When it comes to actually breaking down teams and what their strengths and weaknesses are, they usually fail horribly and as a Clippers and Knicks fan we would know this first hand.

So are you indeed saying that as a player this year Tony Parker is a better PG/player than Chris Paul? It sounds to me like you said that. I'd like to verify this before I get into actual facts to destroy this idea.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

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I have DelusionalFan86 on ignore but judging by your quote I can picture him throwing a bitch fit real soon.


You two have your ongoing thing and I think you both go over the top too much. But, in general, you're both good posters. I think he's good but is getting carried away here.


It's like you and your hatred for Westbrook...even I never disliked him that much lol.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:56 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

Hes not a big enough name in the NBA for him to win MVP and hes not getting anywhere near the hype Nash got when he won his ones (being a lesser kinda name before winning his MVPs) on top of that Lebron has gone god mode.

Parker has this season been the best and most consistant PG and hes easily been the Spurs #1 player since they switched there style 2-3 years ago to more up tempo.
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