Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2013, 01:57 PM   #16
BrickingStar
Banned
 
BrickingStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,214
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMT
How'd you come to this conclusion? Seems to me like you're pulling it out of your ass.

If Lebron doesn't play the Heat have two stars in Wade and Bosh who can carry the load, and some of the best role players in the league in Battier, Allen, Chalmers. Not saying they are still championship contenders obviously but they could make a run to the second round, maybe even the ECF. If TP doesn't play, we're missing the motor to our fine tuned offense and our true leader. Please tell me how exactly we'd be fine if Tony were to go down for the rest of the season.

Not saying he deserves the MVP, but the way the casual fan who knows next to nothing about how the Spurs operate is unbearable. "It's the system", "Their only good bc of their depth", ect. It's all bullshit. Give credit where credit is due. He sure as hell deserves to be up there in the conversation. If the Spurs were playing in the East they would probably up there around 50 wins, if not almost.
Unbelievable how you say "casual fan who knows next to nothing about how the Spurs operate is unbearable." When it's the same thing when it comes to the heat with you. Mario Chalmers is one of the worst PGs in the league and it's not even close to debatable, you must of just watched one game and said "oh wow one of the best role players in the league" Shane battier is incredibly inconsistent and I have no idea how you can say he's one of the best role players in the league , you are eating SHIT. And finally ray allen, He is a POS of defense and has been on argubly one of the worst shooting slumps in the league, you have to be going by name to call him one of the best role players in the league today. I think you were trolling when you mention mario chalmers as one of the best role players in the league. What you said if TP goes down is the exact samething that would happen to the heat if will lost lebron.
BrickingStar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 01:59 PM   #17
niko
I Run NY.
 
niko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 30,758
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

I hate these topics sometimes, if you say no it's YOU HATE TONY PARKER. Saying Tony Parker is not the MVP (slotting him below Lebron) is not hate. It's just how it is. If you discuss this topic like it's reasonable like we are, i think that says something positive about Tony, no?
niko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 02:22 PM   #18
Whoah10115
Linja Status
 
Whoah10115's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,967
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
I watch nearly every Spurs game and I just don't see it. It would be giving an MVP award basically to "best scorer on a team with the best record" which is not what the MVP is. Lebron at his peak is more than that. Shaq at his peak is more than that.

Parker's basically been playing the way he has the last 6 years, give or take a dry spell/injury ridden season. He is indeed playing excellent as of late and is very much a veteran. Best offensive player currently on the Spurs (Duncan and Manu are getting old), sure, but most valuable player in the league? Hardly. Throw Parker on the Bobcats and he's not turning that team around the way a Lebron or Durant would.

Parker's thriving in a system (largely penetrate, and kick out to shooters), but the system is not really designed for him to dominate the ball and play creation. The offensive is very sharing on the Spurs. By virtue of his position Parker runs the team (and his improved greatly over the years), but Tim Duncan's usage-% is still very high (was the Spurs MVP in the first couple months), so is Ginobili's (has really great value that doesn't readily show up in stats) and give credit to the offensive awareness of Green (underrated player probably), Leonard, Splitter, Diaw, Jackson, and Neal. Basically, the team is stacked with players who can create off the dribble, for others, and for themselves. Splitter has blossomed this seaon, mostly due to more opportunity (thus far, has career high 23.7 mpg and 33 starts).

It's not the same as what Nash did for the Suns (averaging 11+ assists) or what Rose did for the Bulls a couple years ago. Derrick Rose averaged 25 and 7.7 and 37+ mpg for a really slow team that only scored 98.6 ppg. The Spurs on the other hand average 104+ ppg and their bench leads the league in assists (10.5 apg), and have a coach who can win games without his best players.

If the season ended now, Parker would be the first MVP in history to average only 32.9 minutes a game.



Your basketball points, about how the system works and how players are utilized, how established it is, are all right. Also, Parker is simply not as good as some players and isn't going to just turn a team around.


But TMT is right and you're wrong. He was a top 5 player last year and a top 5 player this year, based on the season. He's not the MVP but there's no comparing these last two seasons to the four before it. It's not even close and a ridiculous statement. Not even the 08/09 season. His level of play these last two seasons have been noticeably better. There is a true system in place, but he runs it and he executes it. His level of play in doing so is elite these last two seasons. To the point that he isn't just having great seasons, but he looks like a different player.


James and Durant have been better, each of the last two seasons. I think Parker was the 3rd best player of the regular season last year. He's probably that this season. Melo has a shout and Paul really doesn't, but I'm not arguing that anymore. MVP candidate, as in one of the highest vote-getters outside of the winner, he is.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 02-20-2013 at 02:24 PM.
Whoah10115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 02:41 PM   #19
plUto or bUst
I hit open 5-footers
 
plUto or bUst's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 288
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Parker is not MVP but only because Lebron is having a historic season. Parker is having a MUCH better season then when Rose won his MVP. Parker is only behind Durant and Lebron in my view.
plUto or bUst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 02:59 PM   #20
SCdac
Very good NBA starter
 
SCdac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,356
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Your basketball points, about how the system works and how players are utilized, how established it is, are all right. Also, Parker is simply not as good as some players and isn't going to just turn a team around.


But TMT is right and you're wrong. He was a top 5 player last year and a top 5 player this year, based on the season. He's not the MVP but there's no comparing these last two seasons to the four before it. It's not even close and a ridiculous statement. Not even the 08/09 season. His level of play these last two seasons have been noticeably better. There is a true system in place, but he runs it and he executes it. His level of play in doing so is elite these last two seasons. To the point that he isn't just having great seasons, but he looks like a different player.


James and Durant have been better, each of the last two seasons. I think Parker was the 3rd best player of the regular season last year. He's probably that this season. Melo has a shout and Paul really doesn't, but I'm not arguing that anymore. MVP candidate, as in one of the highest vote-getters outside of the winner, he is.

You have to understand though, (let's assume Parker is the "third best player this season" which not sure if I agree with) being ranked behind only a couple of other greater players doesn't necessarily mean... he's right behind them.

Basically I'd have it like this (again going under said assumption of Parker being #3):


1) Lebron
.
2) Durant
.
.
.
.
.
.
3) Parker, and others

Can you see how being "third best" is somewhat of a misleading statement?

I think you're too caught up in stats, how they rank a player, and what fluctuation from season to season generally implicates. Parker only looks like a "different player" in that he's more experienced now, more confident (not afraid to take a clutch shot), and has mastered the PG position in the Spurs' system (been running it for years). But really, he's not an out of this world franchise player and that's kind of what MVP is. Parker hasn't grown into an exponentially better player than he's been the last 6 years, despite become more seasoned and experienced. He's having a really efficient season (not uncommon for him), but I would take a less efficient Irving or Rose on the Spurs if given the choice. In a heartbeat.

No doubt he's having one of his best seasons in the last couple years, but the impact is not so black/white considering the Spurs won 50 games last season (lockout shortened), 61 games before that, while Parker put up 17-18 ppg, not to mention all the other previous success. The Spurs play faster than they used to (suits Parker and increases his numbers) and ever since picking up Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw have been arguably the deepest team in the league (more options = more assists).

I can see the argument for MVP of the Spurs, but not a legit one for MVP of the league. Merely being a candidate does not equate to being a serious contender.
SCdac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:13 PM   #21
9512
hon hon hon eat snails
 
9512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,302
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Anecdotes of Tony Parker:

In the US, he endorses or endorsed Subway sandwiches. But in France/Belgium, he endorses the Franco Belgian version of fast food called "Quick."

He is also a cartoon character in a basketball themed cartoon called "Tony Baskup"

FYI
9512 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:28 PM   #22
ZaaaaaH
Banned
 
ZaaaaaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: District of Columbia
Posts: 1,848
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Nah, Rose meant more to the '11 Bulls than Parker does to the current Spurs. Defensively, offensively, more minutes and production, just all around meant more. Sure, them both being scoring PG's there's a similarity, they're both clutch too, but Parker being the MVP of the league would water down the award IMO and put too much of a focus on team record... I mean lets be real, the Spurs have had the best record in the west the past 2-3 season. At that point, it's characteristic of the franchise, it's coach, and the system more than anything. Tim Duncan-effect too. His defense and overall presence would not be easily replaced.


You sure you watch all the Spurs game?

Bulls and Spurs play different style.

Only reason Rose is more important to his team is because he is only 24 and the future of the Franchise for YEARS to come but when it comes to impact of the game RIGHT now its Tony Parker.

If you really did watch the Spurs all year, you should know Tony Playmakes CONSISTENTLY all year when the game is close.

Bottom line to me you just dont Respect what Tony is doing for your team.
ZaaaaaH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #23
Whoah10115
Linja Status
 
Whoah10115's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,967
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
You have to understand though, (let's assume Parker is the "third best player this season" which not sure if I agree with) being ranked behind only a couple of other greater players doesn't necessarily mean... he's right behind them.

Basically I'd have it like this (again going under said assumption of Parker being #3):


1) Lebron
.
2) Durant
.
.
.
.
.
.
3) Parker, and others

Can you see how being "third best" is somewhat of a misleading statement?

I think you're too caught up in stats, how they rank a player, and what fluctuation from season to season generally implicates. Parker only looks like a "different player" in that he's more experienced now, more confident (not afraid to take a clutch shot), and has mastered the PG position in the Spurs' system (been running it for years). But really, he's not an out of this world franchise player and that's kind of what MVP is. Parker hasn't grown into an exponentially better player than he's been the last 6 years, despite become more seasoned and experienced. He's having a really efficient season (not uncommon for him), but I would take a less efficient Irving or Rose on the Spurs if given the choice. In a heartbeat.

No doubt he's having one of his best seasons in the last couple years, but the impact is not so black/white considering the Spurs won 50 games last season (lockout shortened), 61 games before that, while Parker put up 17-18 ppg, not to mention all the other previous success. The Spurs play faster than they used to (suits Parker and increases his numbers) and ever since picking up Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw have been arguably the deepest team in the league (more options = more assists).

I can see the argument for MVP of the Spurs, but not a legit one for MVP of the league. Merely being a candidate does not equate to being a serious contender.


Well, like I said, there are players who are straight up better. Paul and Bryant are still, definitely, better players. Howard is still a better player. And on and on.


I don't think Parker is a top 10 player, but he's been great over the last two seasons. And I think that the other two are clearly above him.


As far as what stats mean to me and fluctuating season to season...there isn't a single person who that applies less to than me. I hold out on guys.


Parker is leaps and bounds better than he was two years ago. Mastering the PG position says it all. I already said that he isn't someone who's going to change a team, but he's playing like a franchise player.


There could be no argument for Spurs MVP.
Whoah10115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:40 PM   #24
Kingwillball
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Kingwillball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,825
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Not even Close Parker could miss 10 games and the Spurs still probably go 8-2. Lebron is better in every way when it comes to MVP and more valuable to his team. As of right now it is a 2 horse Race Lebron is ahead of Durant than there is everyone else.
Kingwillball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:44 PM   #25
CeltsGarlic
straight from...
 
CeltsGarlic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: ...dungeons of rap
Posts: 7,954
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Well, like I said, there are players who are straight up better. Paul and Bryant are still, definitely, better players. Howard is still a better player. And on and on.


I don't think Parker is a top 10 player, but he's been great over the last two seasons. And I think that the other two are clearly above him.


As far as what stats mean to me and fluctuating season to season...there isn't a single person who that applies less to than me. I hold out on guys.


Parker is leaps and bounds better than he was two years ago. Mastering the PG position says it all. I already said that he isn't someone who's going to change a team, but he's playing like a franchise player.


There could be no argument for Spurs MVP.

I would love to see your top 10 players. IMO saying hes not a top is really underrating Parker.. I guess you would take harden over him?
CeltsGarlic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:51 PM   #26
SCdac
Very good NBA starter
 
SCdac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,356
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaaaaaH
You sure you watch all the Spurs game?

Bulls and Spurs play different style.

Only reason Rose is more important to his team is because he is only 24 and the future of the Franchise for YEARS to come but when it comes to impact of the game RIGHT now its Tony Parker.

If you really did watch the Spurs all year, you should know Tony Playmakes CONSISTENTLY all year when the game is close.

Bottom line to me you just dont Respect what Tony is doing for your team.

He's averaging 21 ppg for the Spurs, and like 27 ppg this month... I definitely appreciate that.

5 years ago he averaged 24-25 ppg for a couple months... appreciated that too.

6-7 years ago he had a month where he averaged .57 FG% from the field... that was amazing.

In 2005 he averaged 20+ ppg against the Suns in the playoffs and the Spurs needed that... definitely appreciative.

I'm glad he's on the Spurs and I'm glad he's helped them to 3 championships.

The point is, he's been doing his thing for a long time and not much as changed outside of pure experience and expertise of the game. He's become a much better passer and shooter, I'll give him that, but always been a scorer. If the Spurs were smart, they would sell him while his stock is high... because as is the Spurs are not serious contenders.

Rose is more important to his team because (at his best) he plays more, scores more, assists just as much for a slower team, rebounds more, gets to the line more, and meant more to the Bulls offense and defense than Parker does for SA. He scored 25% of the teams total points in 2011 which is impressive. I think impact on the game is debatable in that Parker has better teammates, a better coach, and plays less minutes.
SCdac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 03:52 PM   #27
Whoah10115
Linja Status
 
Whoah10115's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,967
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by CeltsGarlic
I would love to see your top 10 players. IMO saying hes not a top is really underrating Parker.. I guess you would take harden over him?


Maybe I will put him in the top 10. The top 10 has changed a lot over the last year. Rose hasn't played in too long and only has a year and a half of elite play under his belt. Deron is nowhere to be found, Gasol is gone (tho he was on the edge of top 10), Dirk looks to be out of the elite for good, Pierce is finally looking like he's slipping a bit, Anthony has finally ascended to the post, Westbrook is terrific, even out of position, Harden has made a crazy jump this year...Love hasn't quite established himself in the top 10. And on and on. I probably won't make a list until after the year.


But I didn't have Parker on it to start.
Whoah10115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 06:32 PM   #28
BoutPractice
I'll pass
 
BoutPractice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,027
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Good to finally see him get the credit he deserves.
He's a model to every young PG out there - one of the few players you could say maximized their potential. He's playing near flawless Parker basketball right now.

He has a clear case for top 3 in MVP voting. Nothing is missing for him to get consideration - he's got amazing stats (especially considering the minutes he plays) on the team with the best record in the league, he's a proven commodity as a multiple all-star and former Finals MVP... Let's also not forget that he was already top 5 last year and is having a significantly better season this year.
BoutPractice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 06:37 PM   #29
NumberSix
Big Booty Hoes!!
 
NumberSix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Internets
Posts: 23,199
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

king
NumberSix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 02:03 AM   #30
ZaaaaaH
Banned
 
ZaaaaaH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: District of Columbia
Posts: 1,848
Default Re: Tony Parker 2012-2013 MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
He's averaging 21 ppg for the Spurs, and like 27 ppg this month... I definitely appreciate that.

5 years ago he averaged 24-25 ppg for a couple months... appreciated that too.

6-7 years ago he had a month where he averaged .57 FG% from the field... that was amazing.

In 2005 he averaged 20+ ppg against the Suns in the playoffs and the Spurs needed that... definitely appreciative.

I'm glad he's on the Spurs and I'm glad he's helped them to 3 championships.

The point is, he's been doing his thing for a long time and not much as changed outside of pure experience and expertise of the game. He's become a much better passer and shooter, I'll give him that, but always been a scorer. If the Spurs were smart, they would sell him while his stock is high... because as is the Spurs are not serious contenders.

Rose is more important to his team because (at his best) he plays more, scores more, assists just as much for a slower team, rebounds more, gets to the line more, and meant more to the Bulls offense and defense than Parker does for SA. He scored 25% of the teams total points in 2011 which is impressive. I think impact on the game is debatable in that Parker has better teammates, a better coach, and plays less minutes.


All those years TD was the best Player. The team has Changed their style and now Tony is their Number one option.


To be honest I think your a Manu fan who does not like Parker due to all the Shine he takes away from your man.
ZaaaaaH is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:49 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy