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Old 02-25-2013, 10:44 PM   #16
Jailblazers7
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
I'm A-OK with people playing as hard as they can. I've guarded people full court in pickup games before, usually when I sense they're not someone who's going to like dealing with that pressure, leading them to give up the ball early. Sometimes it's easier to pick up full and force an early pass than allowing a player to saunter downcourt and have an open opportunity to make something happen in the half court. Sometimes dangerous half court ball players still don't like having to work their way out of the backcourt.

Back to the point though, I just think there's a difference between playing hard and playing dangerous and oftentimes, attempting to take charges (especially outdoors) can be very dangerous for the offensive and defensive player.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I had a problem with stuff like that. I just mean stuff like taking charges and always picking up full court strikes me as a little odd in a pick-up game. The full court D is all good, altho I consider it a waste of time and energy vs any reasonably skilled player, because its just a case of effort and not putting anyone in harm's way.

Charges are too risky with the potential to get flipped around in the air and land badly.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

Hell no.

I remember coming down to my local university courts. People were saying that the team on the court had won a certain number of games in a row, but they were playing like bitches, etc.
So I gather up a random team to get a game. They start getting their asses handed to them, and the dudes try to start calling moving screens and charges. lol... I had the ball in my hands at the time and I told them to play through it, or get the f*ck off the court. Sure enough, they shut up, and lost 7-1. lol...

Moral of the story. Don't call that shit, or try and take charges, because you will most likely be thought of as a bitch.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

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Originally Posted by plowking
Hell no.

I remember coming down to my local university courts. People were saying that the team on the court had won a certain number of games in a row, but they were playing like bitches, etc.
So I gather up a random team to get a game. They start getting their asses handed to them, and the dudes try to start calling moving screens and charges. lol... I had the ball in my hands at the time and I told them to play through it, or get the f*ck off the court. Sure enough, they shut up, and lost 7-1. lol...

Moral of the story. Don't call that shit, or try and take charges, because you will most likely be thought of as a bitch.

people drive into your chest at full speed and call fouls. that is what bothers me about playing with no charges. I don't take charges but every once in a while I'll tell some bum what he is doing and I will never give them that bull shit call.

Also, if you are really trying to spam moving screens etc. then it should be called if you are altering the game and playing decent comp. I have run many a court and if someone if walking through screens while im chasing a shooter then I'm either running over them or calling it. Depends on the setting tho.
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

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Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I had a problem with stuff like that. I just mean stuff like taking charges and always picking up full court strikes me as a little odd in a pick-up game. The full court D is all good, altho I consider it a waste of time and energy vs any reasonably skilled player, because its just a case of effort and not putting anyone in harm's way.

Charges are too risky with the potential to get flipped around in the air and land badly.
I am once again in agreement with your feelings on charges in streetball. And I understand you don't necessarily have a problem with full court defense. It's not something I do a lot, but I do believe it's a completely acceptable play, as opposed to charge taking.

Some believe full court pressure is a waste of time and energy versus any reasonably skilled player, but I do not necessarily agree. I consider myself reasonably skilled and if a tireless and skilled defender picks me up full court while I'm handling the ball, it's not always awesome. I mean, it doesn't lead to a litany of turnovers, but it can definitely take me out of a groove and possibly wear me out quicker than normal.

On the other hand, I've had some out-of-shape shlubs give full court pressure a shot and it more or less leads to a non-stop 5-on-4 fast break. But if the right player is guarding the right guy, it can be advantageous to extend defensive pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
people drive into your chest at full speed and call fouls. that is what bothers me about playing with no charges. I don't take charges but every once in a while I'll tell some bum what he is doing and I will never give them that bull shit call.

Also, if you are really trying to spam moving screens etc. then it should be called if you are altering the game and playing decent comp. I have run many a court and if someone if walking through screens while im chasing a shooter then I'm either running over them or calling it. Depends on the setting tho.
Yep, I'm with you on both fronts. Some type of balance must be struck between the offensive and defensive player in the "drive into chest" situations.

Moving screens can actually be a real problem too. I'm assuming that, like me, you're not referring to guys who just kind of don't have their feet set. Rather, we're talking about the folks who are more or less bulldozing opponents on the move, like a downfield block. I've played with one guy in particular who waited until his point guard began driving to the hoop, then he'd run up from the block and meet and blind side the recovering defender at full speed in the middle of the paint. That was an issue.

Like you said though, a lot of those instances don't necessarily result in moving pick fouls. Instead, I tend to respond in kind. If a player is setting a running pick, I will attempt to run through it with a shoulder down, which, at 6'3'' 170 doesn't always do much, but it usually gets the point across.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 02-26-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:32 PM   #20
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

One thing about the full court D is that if the pressure is actually good usually you can just pass it to someone guarded by a defender unwilling to go full court.

Stuff like that is almost always poorly coordinated in a pick-up setting.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:06 PM   #21
Rake2204
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

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Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
One thing about the full court D is that if the pressure is actually good usually you can just pass it to someone guarded by a defender unwilling to go full court.

Stuff like that is almost always poorly coordinated in a pick-up setting.
Right, and oftentimes, that's the idea. One of the rare times I'd opt for full court pressure is when my opponent seems to be, by a safe distance, his team's best ballhandler but someone who still might opt to get the ball up the easier way (i.e. passing to an open teammate) rather than trying to break me down one on one for the length of the floor. In that case, it puts the onus on his less experienced ball handling teammates to get things going, which is sometimes enough to throw off a team's entire rhythm.

Defending the length of the floor is not standard for me. It's just situational, depending upon whether I see a weakness in my opponent or his teammates.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

The problem is scrubs don't know what it's like to actually get hacked in the lane, so they consistently call ticky tack bullshit every time they drive.

If they wanna feel what it's like, they should feel the shit I don't call on them when they reach and hack off the dribble.

I don't take it personally, but it sucks because I could call those kinds of fouls EVERY TIME. I just hate having to check it up again. Pain in the ass.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

One of the last times I played one on one with someone I kept doing my drive-stepback j move, or a Dirk post move, and I was playing at about 35%.

He was playing super hard and beat me like 11-9 and then had the audacity to try and give me 'tips'. He said stuff like, "You should really drive to the basket and learn to finish with contact."

I'm great at finishing with contact. I scored most of my points by slashing to the basket when I played.

I responded with, "Why would I do that in an un-reffed one on one game that I don't care about?" It's only going to lead to more chances to get hurt.

Just more examples on why I hate playing pick up with people.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
One of the last times I played one on one with someone I kept doing my drive-stepback j move, or a Dirk post move, and I was playing at about 35%.

He was playing super hard and beat me like 11-9 and then had the audacity to try and give me 'tips'. He said stuff like, "You should really drive to the basket and learn to finish with contact."

I'm great at finishing with contact. I scored most of my points by slashing to the basket when I played.

I responded with, "Why would I do that in an un-reffed one on one game that I don't care about?" It's only going to lead to more chances to get hurt.

Just more examples on why I hate playing pick up with people.
Was this someone you did not know? That'd be relatively strange for a random person to give unsolicited basketball advice in a situation like that (especially if you're both adults and about the same age).

But also, why play 1-on-1 but only go 35%? I'm not sure I treat each impromptu 1-on-1 contest as life or death, but unless my opponent is literally terrible (which happens sometimes) I tend to give it a solid shot.
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Old 02-28-2013, 04:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

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Originally Posted by Rake2204
Was this someone you did not know? That'd be relatively strange for a random person to give unsolicited basketball advice in a situation like that (especially if you're both adults and about the same age).

But also, why play 1-on-1 but only go 35%? I'm not sure I treat each impromptu 1-on-1 contest as life or death, but unless my opponent is literally terrible (which happens sometimes) I tend to give it a solid shot.

Never met or even saw the person before. I was 22 he was probably a year or two older. He kept talking about how he 'he was the last guy cut from the college team'.

I really only go to shoot around and work on moves by myself, basically meditate/shut my brain off. I was the only person there and he started shooting on my hoop, then asked to play like 3 times. It put me in a weird spot.

I don't go hard because I don't see the point. I'm not making a career out of ball, I end up getting hurt often because of past knee/ankle injuries, there's no ref, who knows how the person will take losing, etc. I play just hard enough to look like I'm trying... Basically I just keep the score competitive.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

Since most players in pick-up are much worse, I also give half effort to avoid small injuries. If they are close to winning I turn it on and make it clear to them they have no chance when I do.

It's pretty easy to score at will if they don't know how to defend the dribble.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:38 PM   #27
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Default Re: Taking charges in pick up

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessorMurder
Never met or even saw the person before. I was 22 he was probably a year or two older. He kept talking about how he 'he was the last guy cut from the college team'.

I really only go to shoot around and work on moves by myself, basically meditate/shut my brain off. I was the only person there and he started shooting on my hoop, then asked to play like 3 times. It put me in a weird spot.

I don't go hard because I don't see the point. I'm not making a career out of ball, I end up getting hurt often because of past knee/ankle injuries, there's no ref, who knows how the person will take losing, etc. I play just hard enough to look like I'm trying... Basically I just keep the score competitive.
Makes sense. It always seems to be the weird, give-too-much-information guys who tend to challenge strangers to games of one-on-one. I don't mean that sarcastically either. Through the years I've discovered there's honestly a lot more people out there like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushxx
Since most players in pick-up are much worse, I also give half effort to avoid small injuries. If they are close to winning I turn it on and make it clear to them they have no chance when I do.

It's pretty easy to score at will if they don't know how to defend the dribble.
Fair enough. I suppose we all have our reasons. I personally try to go hard whenever possible and when I don't, my day of basketball often feels incomplete or like a failure. My thing has always been to go hard, even against people I was better than (unless they were playing at a 5th grade level) so I can still get something worthwhile out of it.

It also seems to step things up a notch across the board, making the other people who were only giving half effort actually go a bit harder. I've noticed effort is contagious. It's like how I used to slow down my fast break to allow non-effort-giving teammates to saunter up the floor back in high school. Then one day it dawned to me that I should be making them keep up with me. Not the other way around. That's kind of how it tends to work with effort.

I truly see where you're coming from though. It's just, I realized a long time ago that if I only played hard when I decided the competition was absolutely perfect, I'd have spent 95% of my post-organized league days playing at 50%, and that seemed like a lose-lose for everybody. Instead, I decided to almost always push myself so when I was the best player on the floor, people would be able to see why (and try harder and improve from playing against me) and then when I wasn't the best player on the court, I'd still be conditioned and used to competing and pushing myself at a high level. My game is pretty habitual, for I have never really had the luxury of playing 50% when I wanted then adequately kicking it up to 100% when the time called. If I want to play well, I have to make a habit of playing hard.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 02-28-2013 at 07:49 PM.
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