Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-22-2013, 04:31 AM   #1
Derivative
Most Valuable Poster
 
Derivative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,262
Default Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

I find it extremely stupid how people rank individual players based on their TEAM achievements such as rings and not PERSONAL achievements such as MVPs, stats. I thought we're ranking PLAYERS here, individual PLAYERS, not TEAMS.

The thing with rings it's too dependent on other factors mainly how good your teammates are. You can be the best players in the game and not win a ring because your teammates such. And you can be an average player and still win a ring because you have really good teammates to carry you. So how is it reasonable to rank players based on the quality of their team?

And what's the point of personal stats and MVPS or Finals MVPs if people just ignore it when ranking players, and all they mention is rings. Isn't stats suppose to measure how productive and efficient a player is(therefore how good they are)? and isn't MVPS suppose to be given to the top player in the game? So why don't people ever mention these individual awards when ranking players all time?

So it's extremely stupid that people can say a player is better than the other because of 5>1 or 6>5, if those people were taking any type of academic exam they would probably fail due to their horrible logic.

Again, I am not totally dismissing rings as a factor to rank a player, it counts, but it shouldn't be the main factor. A player's ranking should be based on various factors all together including stats, MVPs, rings, final MVPs, etc.


And if you rank players based on individual achievements and performance, Lebron is top 10 already. His stats are only rivaled by Michael Jordan in the modern era, and he has 3(soon to be 4) MVPS, along with 1 Finals MVP. 2-3 more finals MVP he would be up there with Jordan.
Derivative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:51 AM   #2
Eric Cartman
respect my authoritah
 
Eric Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,053
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Don't MVP's and team success go hand in hand?
Eric Cartman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:54 AM   #3
imnew09
2*/5
 
imnew09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lakers' Cruise
Posts: 4,301
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Don't MVP's and team success go hand in hand?


This post is from Derivative what do you expect?

The main claim in this thread is that Lebron is the GOAT, Lebron > MJ.
imnew09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:54 AM   #4
I<3NBA
NBA lottery pick
 
I<3NBA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5,214
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Don't MVP's and team success go hand in hand?
no. there'd been a lot of times when the MVP wasn't the best team in the league

/stupid question

and the answer to OP's question is because those ppl are stupid.

yes. WILT is the GOAT.
I<3NBA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:55 AM   #5
Derivative
Most Valuable Poster
 
Derivative's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Cartman
Don't MVP's and team success go hand in hand?


Yes they do but MVP is much more correlated with a player being good. If you're an MVP, your at least a top 5 player in the league.

A ring is not correlated with a player being good. Like Pau Gasol, he has 2 rings, no one is saying he's better than Lebron.
Derivative is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:04 AM   #6
Breezy
Great young streetballer
 
Breezy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 572
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

I generally agree with you, although there are 2 things I think it's important to consider.

1. There are some players who aren't actually that good who can put up gaudy stats on crappy teams just because their team sucks and they have a green light to have the ball in their hands all the.

2. The point of you're post is right on because clearly Malone>Horry but we shouldn't totally ignore rings and playoff victories because after all winning is the point of the game.
Breezy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:09 AM   #7
fpliii
LAL Est. 1960
 
fpliii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: nbastats.net
Posts: 10,212
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Rings aren't the end-all-be-all (though they are why you play the game), but there are only 10 players on the court at a time, so one player can have a substantial impact on his team's championship chances.

The MVP was fine prior to becoming a media award. I hold the seasons when it was voted on by the players in a much, much higher regard.
fpliii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:10 AM   #8
BoutPractice
I'll pass
 
BoutPractice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,027
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Because there's a degree of correlation between personal play and team achievement, and the greater the player, the greater the correlation.

You can't ignore team success altogether.
A great player adds wins to your team's total - their team has a higher chance of winning a given contest. A good way to show this is when that player is the one constant in a frequently changing roster or changes teams.

Personally I'd say that winning percentage over a large sample reflect a player's contribution to their team better than the outcome of one single game (the small is too small, anyone can have an off night)... Hence my view of Russell and Duncan as the ultimate winners.

Still, titles can't be dismissed completely as irrelevant. Yes, matchups skew the result somewhat. But if you think about it, in order not to win the title, you need to lose 4 games in 7. It's not about one outcome, it's about 7 outcomes.
BoutPractice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:13 AM   #9
kuniva_dAMiGhTy
The First School
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 11,021
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

When all teams are elite (or "equal" for lack of a better term), ring counting is fair game. Context is ALWAYS key though.
kuniva_dAMiGhTy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:17 AM   #10
bdreason
Game. Set. Match.
 
bdreason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HB, CA
Posts: 21,530
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

"you play, to win, the game"



^^^
That's not mine.
bdreason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:23 AM   #11
La Frescobaldi
I brick nerf balls
 
La Frescobaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,224
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I<3NBA
no. there'd been a lot of times when the MVP wasn't the best team in the league

/stupid question

and the answer to OP's question is because those ppl are stupid.

yes. WILT is the GOAT.
He always has been. For half a century people have been flailing their arms wildly, and belittling his accomplishments in a desperate attempt to avoid facing the magnitude of that man.
People generally can't stand the truth
La Frescobaldi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:27 AM   #12
talkingconch
College superstar
 
talkingconch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,303
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

sorry dude kobe > lebron
talkingconch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:37 AM   #13
KOBE143
In GawdBe We Trust
 
KOBE143's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: KB Center
Posts: 2,198
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

No people rank players base on:

1. Championship
2. Longevity
3. Individual record eg. Career total points, most 3ptfg made in game, 81 points in modern era, etc..
4. Contribution to the league - shoes sale, jersey sale, ticket sale, popularity
5. Individual Accomplishment - MVP, ROY, DPOY, etc..

In that order..
KOBE143 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:49 AM   #14
RoundMoundOfReb
Objective Poster
 
RoundMoundOfReb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,940
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOBE143
No people rank players base on:

1. Championship
2. Longevity
3. Individual record eg. Career total points, most 3ptfg made in game, 81 points in modern era, etc..
4. Contribution to the league - shoes sale, jersey sale, ticket sale, popularity
5. Individual Accomplishment - MVP, ROY, DPOY, etc..

In that order..
this made me lol. nice post Lebron23
RoundMoundOfReb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:51 AM   #15
iamgine
...
 
iamgine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 11,556
Default Re: Why do people rank players based on team achievements and not personal achievements?

Finals MVP is also a team achievement. You need a good team who performs well to reach the finals and win it.

Stats is also a team achievement. Had Dennis Rodman played with Moses Malone and KG, his rebounding number will decrease significantly.
iamgine is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy