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Old 02-26-2013, 07:34 AM   #31
Kblaze8855
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatstogey
Thank you.


omg all you mofos are going based on nostalgia. The guy you watched when you were a kid.

Well guess what? YOU'RE A DAMN ADULT NOW. Who cares what you watched hwen you were a kid.

Meanwhile people who were 12 in 2003 and grew up on Lebron and Kobe pick their childhood hero....

At least I saw a lot of all of them. Its clear most of you dont know shit about Magic and Larry.

Really:


Quote:
How about Maxwell taking home the FMVP over Bird? Or McHale outplaying Bird in his freaking prime(85 Finals)? *** u.

No way this dude has seen even one of the games in question. Im a fanatic for that kinda thing...ive watched some of the games within the year....and I watched some of it at the time...and even I dont remember the details that clearly.

But he sees fit to talk about it?

This is children and young adults talking about people they know NOTHING about. We all do it at times....how many people watched Russell and are on ISH? But I tell you one thing....someone who DID watch him speaks...I listen.

I assume they saw more than I....read about.

I remember hating on Elgin Baylor when I was a kid and Dr.J was about to retire and my stepfather told me he thought Elgin was better.

In retrospect...I didnt know what the hell I was talking about. Even if my opinion(Doc being better) is true....it came directly out of my ass.

Half of you are 20-25 doing no more thinking than I did as a child.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:44 AM   #32
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatstogey
Are you smoking crack righ now? The team has to fit Lebron? LMAO. The dude does everything. There is no fit. Lebron could join any team and the league and you know what that coach would say to him?

"lebron just do what you do."

Thats all that is needed for him to fit into a team.

Wade had to change his style of play because of LeBron. Wade is also very ball dominant, and since there is only one ball, they were conflicting for a while in the half court. They still sort'a do. Someone like Bird wouldn't have that issue because of his off the ball action and Magic runs the offense better.

I would just disagree with Kblaze on how Mchale or Worthy wouldn't fit with him. The reason why Wade and LBJ was so awkward, not as much currently, was because they both need the ball to be effective. LBJ just took that role because he was better at playing point and because he wasn't really good at playing off the ball. Regardless, Mchale and LBJ style do not clash, and I think would fit together. Worthy and LBJ wouldn't clash as much as Wade and LBJ I don't think, but I'm not sure how they would've turned out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
I dont think Lebron is too selfish to change...I think hes too effective to feel he should. And really...he is. But its not what id want on my team. You couldnt build a team like the Spurs with Lebron on it. A "Next man up..." everyone does his thing no matter who plays or who doesnt...chemistry driven team. He takes too much on himself and when hes off it leaves too much to be done.

Imo, I don't like that comparison of build a team like the Spurs because the Spurs don't really have a caliber star like LBJ. And we don't know what would Pop would make him do. Current LBJ don't really handle the ball as much as he used to, but he still handles it enough. I would figure the Spurs would set LBJ as a super Tony Parker. The Spurs style may fit LBJ because of the shooters, spacing, ball movement. The Heat this year already has pretty good ball movement, and I can see something similar with the Spurs.

They would just have to replace Tony because he would conflict with LBJ game. And the problem I would see is that sometimes they have Tony come off of screens, and he is a better catch and shoot player. LBJ could do that, but both don't do that often enough. But I can see LBJ fit well.

LBJ takes away players who needs the ball to be effective like Wade or something. But I can't replace Bird with LeBron on those Celts teams because some of those players won't have the same impact.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:04 AM   #33
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

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But there are four other teammates out there, and LeBron needs the right kind.

Hasn't LeBron's offensive success with 2 completely different teams in Cleveland and Miami debunked this myth?

Miami's the #1 ranked offense in the NBA this season. #2 in 2011(think of that slow start!) and #6 last season, mainly due to Wade's subpar health and resting their stars at the end of the season, where they failed to break 70 points for consecutive games. It would have been another Top 3 finish otherwise. LeBron has seamlessly coexisted with a shorter replica of himself in Wade(2 Top 3 PER finishes and currently 7th over the last 3 years), but can't with players who are very different from him? That doesn't make much sense.

People need to check out some basic +/- stats for top 5-man units this season. Most of them are dominated by Miami's Big 3. Again, a testament to how well LeBron's game blends with other good players. 2008 was 5 years ago, people. Time has moved on, and so should your archaic view of his game. LeBron stopped being ball dominant in 2009, the year Cleveland ranked #4 on offense. It's 2013 now. Perception is a bitch. Learn by actually WATCHING the game, for once.

Last edited by Indian guy : 02-26-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #34
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

What? Bron was ball dominant until he left Cleveland
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:17 AM   #35
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

No its not safe, run!!
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:19 AM   #36
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

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Originally Posted by Money 23
What? Bron was ball dominant until he left Cleveland

His game changed plenty after 'Mo's arrival in 2009. Compared to his Miami self, yes, he was more ball-dominant in '09 and '10, but getting the ball from 30 feet out and playing pick n roll for half the game ended with the '08 season for him. He has been a different player since, partly due to off-ball improvements in his own game and partly due to the improvement of talent around him. And the better the talent around him has been - the more successful offensively his teams have been. Of course, he's gotten smarter too. Basketball IQ is far superior to what it was pre-2009.

Last edited by Indian guy : 02-26-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:21 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

Indian Guy

How effective do you consider LeBron's ISO game to be sans pick and roll
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:24 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

better than Magic? yeah

Bird? ummm.. nah
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:27 AM   #39
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

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Originally Posted by Money 23
Indian Guy

How effective do you consider LeBron's ISO game to be sans pick and roll
He's currently 6th in the league statistically. 1.03 ppp
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:29 AM   #40
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

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Originally Posted by Money 23
Indian Guy

How effective do you consider LeBron's ISO game to be sans pick and roll

Right now? It's very good. He has regained some of his old quickness on the perimeter, so he CAN consistently beat you off the dribble. He's one of the best standstill shooters in the NBA, so he can shooter over you. And he has slowly learned how to use his bulk down low, so he is a very effective post-up player too. Someone with access to synergy stats recently said he has the league's 6th best PPP in isolations this season.

He will never be MJ or Kobe, guys with dominant first steps and GOAT midrange games, but he's good enough. And that lack of first step + so-so ability to pull up on a dime is WHY he prefers the pick-n-roll so much.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #41
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

LeBron is currently anchoring one of the best offenses in history. A offense that is every bit as good as what Magic or Bird ever led. I don't think you can use the whole "too ball dominant" thing anymore.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:34 AM   #42
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

Way to many posts to replay to in here and many are biased or delusional. I have seen all 3 play and best way to describe Lebron is he has a little Magic and Larry in his game along with MJ when it comes to high flying acrobatics. Bird and Magic both had special gifts but neither were as talented as Lebron. Head to head Lebron has a lot of same qualities but way more athletic also. In short he is as good now and will probably be passing both in the next couple years with more rings Mvps and overall great play.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:47 AM   #43
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingwillball
Way to many posts to replay to in here and many are biased or delusional. I have seen all 3 play and best way to describe Lebron is he has a little Magic and Larry in his game along with MJ when it comes to high flying acrobatics. Bird and Magic both had special gifts but neither were as talented as Lebron. Head to head Lebron has a lot of same qualities but way more athletic also. In short he is as good now and will probably be passing both in the next couple years with more rings Mvps and overall great play.


I love how you call other people biased, while you're sporting a Lebron avatar & username and then present an argument that's based soley on opinion without a single fact.

You just regurgitate the most obvious shit that anybody could say "magic & bird had special gifts" does that mean?

If you've actually seen those 2 play like you say, I feel like you would have presented a better argument for them besides spitting out a bunch of vague basketball cliches
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:56 AM   #44
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

Maybe if he use condom then he's at least safer than Magic..

But against Bird.. Dunno?
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:00 AM   #45
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Default Re: Is it safe to say Lebron is better than Magic Johnson or Larry Bird?

First of all, in their primes i always thought Larry Bird was better than Magic overall, i felt he could do everything better than Magic except the facilitate part..... and yes he was a better defender than Magic aswell, he managed to be honored with three 2nd all-defensive team spots... my father who was an avid Celtic fan in the 80s told me that the NBA fans considered by a majority Larry Bird being better overall talent than Magic, there was many polls, media discussions saying so and the players & coaches would mostly favor Bird aswell when asked....

I was a toddler in the 80s, did just barelly catch Bird and Magic live some years before they retired, but due to the tapes my father recorded (good ol VHS) i did kindof grow up watching lots of Larry Bird...

My point is also that i personally think when it comes to Lebron vs Bird its less safe to say he was better compared to Lebron vs Magic....

Here is this guy Lebron, a guy that has the rebounding ability of both Magic & Bird... that has the vision of both of them.... that has the passing ability which you could argue was better than Birds (Lebron was/is for sure at least a better assist man/facilitator, with better ballhandling/PG skills).... that has a greater scoring arsenal than Magic and that produces points better and more efficiently than Both of them....... and so on, offense is kindof arguable.... You begin to argue their offense, but soon as you start thinking about the defensive side..... the comparison is then pretty much over as Lebron is a much better defender than both of them.... Lebron has the versatility of Pippen on the defensive side while having the versatility of Magic on the offensive side....

Accolades wise Lebron still has a road ahead of him... but when you talk about individual players/talents, when you draw up what Lebron can do at this current stage in his career on both ends of the floor and at what type of level and then compare that to Bird & Magic you will figure out Lebron is a somewhat better overall individual player.... its hard to try and twist & turn around it....
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