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Old 03-08-2013, 01:16 PM   #61
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

The economy adds c. 240K jobs and the unemployment rate drops to its lowest level since December of '08:
US economy adds 236,000 jobs in February; jobless rate falls to 7.7 pct., lowest in 4 years

By Associated Press, Updated: Friday, March 8, 11:43 AM

WASHINGTON — A burst of hiring last month added 236,000 U.S. jobs and reduced the unemployment rate to 7.7 percent from 7.9 percent in January. The robust gains suggested that the economy can strengthen further despite higher taxes and government spending cuts.

The February jobs report issued Friday provided encouraging details: The unemployment rate is at its lowest level in four years. Job growth has averaged more than 200,000 a month since November. Wages rose. And the job gains were broad-based, led by the most construction hiring in six years.

The unemployment rate, which had been stuck at 7.8 percent or above since September, declined mostly because more people found work. Another factor was that 130,000 people without jobs stopped looking for work last month. The government doesn’t count them as unemployed.

The unemployment rate is calculated from a survey of households. The job gains are derived from a separate survey of employers.

The 236,000 jobs that were added in February is a historically solid total. And it would have been higher if governments were contributing to job growth, rather than subtracting from it as they have for nearly four years. Governments cut 10,000 jobs in February.

If federal, state and local governments were adding their long-term combined average of 20,000 to 25,000 jobs a month, February’s total job gains would have been around 260,000.

Hiring has accelerated since summer. Employers have added an average of 191,000 jobs a month from December through February. They had averaged 181,000 gains from September through November and 135,000 from June through August.

Stock prices rose modestly Friday morning after the report was released at 8:30 a.m. Eastern time. Another day of stock gains would give the Dow Jones industrial average its fourth straight record close.

The government said employers added slightly fewer jobs in January than the government had first estimated. Job gains were lowered to 119,000 from an initially estimated 157,000. Still, December hiring was a little stronger than first thought, with 219,000 jobs added instead of 191,000.

Robust auto sales and a steady housing recovery are spurring more hiring, which could trigger more consumer spending and stronger economic growth. The construction industry added 48,000 in February; it’s added a solid 151,000 since September. Manufacturing gained 14,000 jobs last month and 39,000 since November.

Retailers added 24,000 jobs, a sign that they anticipate healthy consumer spending in the coming months. Education and health services gained 24,000. And the information industry, which includes publishing, telecommunications and film, added 20,000, mostly in the movie industry.

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If the House Republicans can stop shooting themselves (and by extension the whole country) in the foot for just long enough for the President to accomplish his Grand Bargain, then we might just see an economic boom the next few years and not just a steady recovery.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:11 PM   #62
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

I think the Times (or maybe the washington post) had an article a few weeks ago about how if we kept getting positive jobs reports that eventually the money companies have been saving might be spent on new jobs. I hope so.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:45 PM   #63
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose
I referred to the government as it?
.
I wanted to make a new thread just to discuss drone stuff, but I'm super busy at work these days and I know I won't get around to it. However this is the the fallacy I was referring to
Quote:
It's more so the government having the ability to attack it's own citizens at anytime is the real reason.
The fallacy is acting like this is new.
Lawyers often simplify an argument to principles to clarify the issues at stake and you can do this with drones. What, in principle separates from a drone from a crossbow? The government already possessed the ability to attack its own citizens at anytime for decades before drones etc. Drones are just the ability to kill at a distance. The government already possess a lot of ways to kill at a distance. Pistols, Rifles, tanks, artillery, B-29's, cruise missiles etc. Drones are simply a new technology. Illegitimate use of drones is not all that different from the illegitimate use of a crossbow

So the question becomes why hasn't the government done this and the answer is still pretty much we are government of laws and not men. And it's illegal to use force except in certain circumstance. The government can't just go ahead and kill you whether by drone or by crossbow. This was true before Rand Paul's filibuster and it's true now. Paul portrayed Holder's answer to him as some sort of policy shift and that's just not true. He simply asked a different, more direct question. A cop on the beat has the right to use force to prevent an attack. So does the President. In Holder's first letter to Paul, it's quite, quite obvious that the two examples he cites, the Pearl Harbor Attacks and the 9/11 attacks are examples of COMBAT against the United States. Paul tried to portray it as Holder being evasive, when the truth was Paul asked a very tendentious question and then pretended not to understand the answer. Holder also made it very clear, that there would need to be a reason that law enforcement or the regular military couldn't act.

As for Paul raising this issues, you make want to look into Senator Wyden. He has a way of addressing the civil liberty issues without implying the government is going bomb you while you sleep or sit in a cafe.

I liked Charlie Pierce's 5 Minute Rule for Ron or Rand Paul. For the first 5 minutes what they are saying is perfectly sensible, then at 5:01 the train goes off the tracks straight to crazytown. Rand Paul kept coming up with examples where the person could be easily apprehended by law enforcement, like when they are sleeping in their bed or sitting in a cafe.

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Old 03-12-2013, 08:56 PM   #64
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Also Paul Ryan has introduced his new budget. I don't know if this is the official Republican budge yet. But his critics say it's more of the same thing we saw from him before.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3920
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...mflam-forever/

If the Republicans do get behind this, you can simply ignore all that talk about changing the party and reaching out to voters. Here's where their money, not their mouth is.

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:22 PM   #65
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Quote:
Illegitimate use of drones is not all that different from the illegitimate use of a crossbow
Maybe not in principle. And in principle, not according to its words but according to its deeds, the united states has been a rogue bullying state since its very inception. So yes, drones don't change that fact, they merely reinforce it.


But forget that because we'll be here for months. The sameness you describe is that they can "kill at a distance"... which is a fallacy in its own right because it ignores everything else and reduces the comparison to a single totally inane factor.

The difference you dismiss can be easily understood in terms of precision, and consequently, in terms of collateral damage. The probability of innocent bystanders in foreign countries losing their lives increased between the crossbow and the introduction of the rifle, just not by very much. Even more so with the machine gun. Major "progress" was made as tanks and missiles came on the scene. Air campaigns. Remote controlled missile launches or whatever, I dunno the military jargon. Drones happen to be the next step. And they're different from goddamn crossbows because they're WAAAAAAAY different from goddamn crossbows. Think about the line of argument you've taken here.

Additionally, maybe you've noticed the parallel and inverse correlation inherent to the technological progression. As foreign civilians come closer and closer to incidental harm, American soldiers move further and further away. That's because while compassionate Americans care very much about foreign civilian casualties, ALL Americans care about lives lost on their side. A democratically elected government is compelled to care about what their own nationals think. Not so much with dem ferners.

As it happens, and this is where it gets really weird, scary weird and obtuse to say the least; the carelessness with which the United States treats civilian casualties around the world inevitably engenders the very antagonism it uses to justify its war games.

All of this absurd imperialism comes part and parcel with "The War on Terror". A war with no clear aims, no clear enemy, no clear territorial borders, and most importantly, no clear end. The post-911 authorization for use of force provides legal grounding for the executive branch of the government to murder anybody associated with an organization that happens to work its way onto the "terrorist list", a list with the most appalling history of inconsistency and double standard and subject to the most stringent interpretation of realpolitik you could imagine.

And if that wasn't bad enough, to come around full circle, it also legitimizes the murder of any innocent bystanders who happen to be unfortunate enough to have wandered within the vicinity of somebody associated to somebody involved in an organization on that list, or "disposition matrix" or random terrorist generator. I don't care how retardedly sophisticated they say it is, it's demonstrably arbitrary.


How can you ignore the clear continuum running between Holder's acknowledgement that the us government can assassinate its own citizens, whether on American soil or not, with its current and very much actualized ability to indefinitely detain whomever it chooses... in either case without even offering so much as a facade of due process? How can you defend the rhetorical garbage and ambiguous legalisms, alongside consistent backtracking and misdirection, that this administration has been feeding the American public the past few years? Why can't you see the heinous cycle that has for a dozen years perpetuated the justification for "use of force in certain circumstances" as you so maddeningly put it?



the whole thing is a goddamn farce. Good for Rand Paul to force the real issues, or as close to them as your country's gonna get, into the national discourse. I salute his courage, if not his actual convictions and the policies that follow.

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Old 03-12-2013, 11:46 PM   #66
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Comparing a crossbow to a drone.

You are the biggest tool on this board Kevin. Jesus.
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Old 03-13-2013, 01:31 PM   #67
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RidonKs
As it happens, and this is where it gets really weird, scary weird and obtuse to say the least; the carelessness with which the United States treats civilian casualties around the world inevitably engenders the very antagonism it uses to justify its war games.

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Old 03-13-2013, 03:45 PM   #68
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
I wanted to make a new thread just to discuss drone stuff, but I'm super busy at work these days and I know I won't get around to it. However this is the the fallacy I was referring to
The fallacy is acting like this is new.
Ridonks basically gave a way more wordy reply than I would have so I'm eager to see what you have to say to him about the issue.

But in my original statement it was in context of "why it matters now" which I said because now the american people KNOW it CAN happen to them, will it? Probably not. But they definitely didn't give a shit a few weeks ago before the white pages came out that every time the drones were striking we were doing so to non-Americans. Who are affected by our Bill of Rights. Constitutionally, we can't/shouldn't be using drones against countries we're not at war against. Especially when we're killing innocent people. That's how I meant my response.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:13 AM   #69
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Obama put Medicare, SS, and Medicaid on the table. But...but... Obama is a liberal.

Progressives are pisseed. Obama fooled them again.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:18 AM   #70
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...cb4_story.html

Democrats are slow to back Obama's Medicare and SS cuts.
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:17 PM   #71
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Rob Portman who was very nearly the guy Romney picked for VP has come out in favor of gay marriage. His son is gay and told his parents two years ago. Portman did tell this to Romney. Now I understand why Romney picked someone from Wisconsin instead of Ohio. If Portman was VP, this issue would have come to the surface

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...lican/1991593/
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:19 PM   #72
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornfan1234
Obama put Medicare, SS, and Medicaid on the table. But...but... Obama is a liberal.

Progressives are pisseed. Obama fooled them again.

At this point, there's no details about anything right? I just tried looking for them and couldn't find anything.

This would be part of the "grand bargain" the Obama has been talking about. This would require Republicans to vote increase revenue. That is tax increases. So Republicans would have to willing to move as well. It's like when you tell your girlfriend, that you're willing to drive across town to take her to that restaurant she's always talking about and sounds really expensive, but you offer to do it on a night when she is tired and has an early business meeting.

You make her an offer you know she's going to turn down, but you get credit for making it. This could be one of those. Where Obama gets to keep his reputation for being reasonable while it portrays the other side as being intransigent. The more they are seen that when, the more the lose the public and the more they lose political capital.

So it's a negotiating ploy and it's hard to know how to judge it since no specifics are attached yet. However, when he was on TV the other day Obama didn't sound too optimisitic they would reach this grand bargain.
Quote:
Right now, what I’m trying to do is create an atmosphere where Democrats and Republicans can go ahead, get together, and try to get something done. And, y– you know– I think what’s important to recognize is that– we’ve already cut– $2.5– $2.7 trillion out of the deficit. If the sequester stays in, you’ve got over $3.5 trillion of deficit reduction already. And, so, we don’t have an immediate crisis in terms of debt. In fact, for the next ten years, it’s gonna be in a sustainable place. The question is, can we do it smarter, can we do it better? And– you know, what I’m saying to them is I am prepared to do some tough stuff. Neither side’s gonna get 100%. That’s what the American people are lookin’ for. That’s what’s gonna be good for jobs. That’s what’s gonna be good for growth. But ultimately, it may be that– the differences are just– too wide. It may be that ideologically, if their position is, “We can’t do any revenue,” or, “We can only do revenue if we gut Medicare or gut Social Security or gut Medicaid,” if that’s the position, then we’re probably not gonna be able to get a deal.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:29 PM   #73
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

I think it's good to hear Obama talking about the fact we don't have an immediate debt crisis. The truth is we are going to have deficits for the next decade until the economy takes off in some crazy way. The point is that deficits are coming down and will become affordable if the economy keeps growing. This is what happened the last time we had debt to GDP ratio this high. We didn't pay down the WWII deficit to zero, the economy grew so much that the debt was became a smaller and smaller percent of the GDP.

We are not going to see a yearly deficit of less than $300 billion in the next 10 years. We have two things driving this. The aftershocks of the financial crisis and the bulge of baby boomers moving though their senior years. This means our debt will $20 trillion soon.

However, Obama and others are starting to recognize that growing the economy is a much bigger nearterm problem that balancing the budget is. Balancing the budget and paying down the debt is a long term problem is not the crisis we are in. Also growing the economy helps with the deficit and debt issues.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:11 PM   #74
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

Three dozen Indiana kids are being dumped from Head Start because of the sequester starting Friday. By the end of it potentially 1000 kids will lose their spot.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:43 PM   #75
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Default Re: The BigAss 2nd term thread

The problem isn't really deficits or debt. The problem is future obligations to SS and especially Medicare within the next 20 years. All this "balance the budget" talk means nothing because Republicans have come up with zero policy ideas to address these problems.
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