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Old 03-05-2013, 03:15 AM   #16
JoshCoward
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

He just made winning plays after plays. And I always thought Kidd was underrated in terms of scoring. Bear with me, I know he was terrible compare to other scoring superstars or the likes of Nash, Payton, Stockton etc. but he scored when it mattered and developed decent jumpers (way better than Rondo at least, opposition respected his shot). He stepped up especially in playoffs and there was times where he was marked tightly / double teamed etc. because he was going off in the fourth quarter. Plus, he always defended the opposition's best players (from my memory during playoffs, he defended Reggie Miller, Baron Davis, Kobe, Tony Parker etc.)

During his rookie Mavs days, he was probably the fastest guy with the ball on transition but was hot and cold (inconsistent).
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:29 AM   #17
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

I'll just add whatever hasnt been said yet.

Mutha****a was clutch when you needed a shot.

His shooting during the game wasn't the greatest... but give the ball to jason when you need to tie it or making a winning play, he got you.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

He finished second in the MVP race in 2001-2002

Season averages: 14.7 ppg, 9.9 apg, 7.3 rpg, 2.1 spg
All NBA 1st team
All NBA 1st team defensive
Finished 1st in conference

Playoff averages: 19.6 ppg, 9.1 apg, 8.2 rpg, 1.7 spg
20 games
Lost to the Lakers in the finals
Random fact, he was the 3rd highest paid on the team. Jayson Williams, and KVH both made more than he did that year lol.

Basically, he was a one man wrecking crew. He could guard the other team's best perimeter player usually (and well), could rebound the shot, could get end to end with lightning speed, and pass with pinpoint accuracy on the lob, on the bounce or out for the tres. This worked against everyone except a team with an amazing halfcourt efficient offense, aka the Lakers. They slowed the game down so much with Shaq that there was no chance to run and gun against them. Finished second in MVP voting that year.

At that level he played for that year, that was easily the best level pg play (for that one season) between 1992 and 2012 in my opinion. Honorable mentions to John Stockton and Steve Nash, but he did more with less and he did it completely on both ends and in all areas. Couldn't shoot but with the way (tempo) he ran the offense, that didn't matter until the Laker series.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie43
Too many people selling magic johnson short. I dont remember magic being a sub 40% shooter most of his career.
hence everyone saying he had no J, I think the Magic comparissons are just the court vision and defense, I dothink he was faster then Magic, as somone mentioned he thrived in the open court and controlling tempo. He was a wing player and runnings bigs dream PG.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Kidd was a little like Rondo in terms of his emphasis on passing and defense.

Offensively, he was like if Rondo traded his finishing ability at the rim for the ability to shoot 3's. Kidd, as athletic as he was in his prime, was never a great finisher at the rim.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

He played in a weak era.



Too soon?
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
He played in a weak era.



Too soon?

Compared to right now, yes he did. There are so many incredible PG's in this era that Kidd in his prime would only be borderline Top 5 PG in the league right now.

He would be better than Rondo but it would hard to make a case for Kidd over CP3, Westbrook, Rose, and Parker.

Then you have to consider up and coming PG's that might outdo whatever Kidd did in his prime in Kyrie and Lillard. Both of their ceilings are incredibly high considering their rookie seasons and Kyrie's progress in just his second season.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Bill Russell, only on offense.

Or, Magic Johnson, but 6'4, and rather than majestic, he was quick and gritty.

As for his jumper... they didn't call him Ason Kidd for nothing. A jumper (and touch in general) is what separated him from Larry Bird and makes him "only" a top-30 all-time player. (The same goes for Dwight and Ewing. There's nothing like good, soft hands.)

One of four players in history (who I know well enough to say it) who actually did have such an intangible hold on the game that he beat you with his teammates. (Hence the Russell comparison, which I know is weird, given that he's a PG with 0 rings as best player.)
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

It's been mentioned in some way or another. But to be very concise I think you can summarize Kidd's prime in 2 ways:

1) best PG defender in the league during prime

2) could get down the court without losing control, faster than anyone else in the league. Could change directions while pretty much sprinting, and court vision while sprinting down court better than any other. That quality right there is what set him apart.

He really didn't shoot too well. If he had developed a consistent J (earlier), he would have been top 5 pg all time with no arguments.. as it is he is very borderline but probably doesn't make that cut



Suns fans still have love for JKidd

We don't bother with the comparisons.. Nash and Kidd are very different players and both deserve the recognition they've got.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #25
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scm5
Compared to right now, yes he did. There are so many incredible PG's in this era that Kidd in his prime would only be borderline Top 5 PG in the league right now.

He would be better than Rondo but it would hard to make a case for Kidd over CP3, Westbrook, Rose, and Parker.

Then you have to consider up and coming PG's that might outdo whatever Kidd did in his prime in Kyrie and Lillard. Both of their ceilings are incredibly high considering their rookie seasons and Kyrie's progress in just his second season.
Prime Kidd would get to the basket know with no handchecking and less phyical play.Small players are the one who took the new rules in 06 and we have seen great numbers since. This is why you can't compare eras.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Prime Kidd was an animal. Would defend anyone you wanted him to 1, 2 or 3 and he wasn't overmatched. He imposed his will on games. Could win a game for you and have only 10 points

I swear the ball gave him super powers, he was faster with the ball than without it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Who remembers this commercial?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wdMLutQfe8
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju151111
Prime Kidd would get to the basket know with no handchecking and less phyical play.Small players are the one who took the new rules in 06 and we have seen great numbers since. This is why you can't compare eras.

I don't know how much you watched him, but prime Kidd could get to the basket at will, he just wasn't a very good finisher.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown&Coke
Prime Kidd was an animal. Would defend anyone you wanted him to 1, 2 or 3 and he wasn't overmatched. He imposed his will on games. Could win a game for you and have only 10 points

I swear the ball gave him super powers, he was faster with the ball than without it.


this. Kidd' defense was out of this world good. He wasn't just gambling for steals or playing the passing lanes(although he could do that and did do that). He could body u up, move his feet and play great man to man defense. He was very crafty with the ball, I don't think I've seen anyone get away with as much carrying as he did. He was so good you didnt notice it. Kidd was Rondo on steroids. His ability to impact the game was immense. I mean he'd have games where he'd only get 8-12 points and still be the best player on the court.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: What was Kidd like in prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundizz
He finished second in the MVP race in 2001-2002

Season averages: 14.7 ppg, 9.9 apg, 7.3 rpg, 2.1 spg
All NBA 1st team
All NBA 1st team defensive
Finished 1st in conference

Playoff averages: 19.6 ppg, 9.1 apg, 8.2 rpg, 1.7 spg
20 games
Lost to the Lakers in the finals
Random fact, he was the 3rd highest paid on the team. Jayson Williams, and KVH both made more than he did that year lol.

Basically, he was a one man wrecking crew. He could guard the other team's best perimeter player usually (and well), could rebound the shot, could get end to end with lightning speed, and pass with pinpoint accuracy on the lob, on the bounce or out for the tres. This worked against everyone except a team with an amazing halfcourt efficient offense, aka the Lakers. They slowed the game down so much with Shaq that there was no chance to run and gun against them. Finished second in MVP voting that year.

At that level he played for that year, that was easily the best level pg play (for that one season) between 1992 and 2012 in my opinion. Honorable mentions to John Stockton and Steve Nash, but he did more with less and he did it completely on both ends and in all areas. Couldn't shoot but with the way (tempo) he ran the offense, that didn't matter until the Laker series.
Great Post.

Yeah he took a last place team that had the most productive point guard in Marbury a 24 and 8 guard and converted them into a two time finals team. He amazingly took a team of guys that never had any type of impact anyplace else - both Kenyon Martain and Richard Jefferson made good money from who they were then with Kidd - this team that had nobody score 15 ppg and nobody above 7.5 rebounds to the finals for two years. Kidd totally just ran the team like a champ. He had masterful control of when to run and when not run. They were a true pleasure to watch cause they had this methodical way of beating you. Kenyon was the only finisher, but he was basically a dunker. Van Horn was a long range shooter but shot bad below the three point line. Nobody else was creative on that team.

He was the only guy I ever seen play make winning plays early in the game. Didn't need to score to be effective and his leadership was crazy. He didn't do things fancy but once in a while you would see a bowling ball pass, a totally duped pass end up with a Kenyon slam, or suck three players only to get a three pointer out of it. They didn't have the fire power to blow out teams but Kidd made them win close games continuously. Would have beat the Piston's team that won it all if he didn't get hurt - sobeit they couldn't beat the Lakers. The team wasn't a run and gun and could win games in the half- court.

He was special.
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