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Old 03-13-2013, 10:25 PM   #46
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by Lebron23
He's an atheist. You F*cking Dip$hit.

I'm not actually. Just don't understand the infatuation with pope news...I compare it to kate middleton.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:31 PM   #47
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

was hoping it would be a black guy just for the lols
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:00 AM   #48
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by Balla_Status
This is about as newsworthy as Kate Middleton's baby bump.


Kate Middleton's baby bump is the spiritual leader of 1.2 billion people? Who knew?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #49
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what happen to the black dude? eh, i think it was best that he wasn't nominated. he prolly didn't want it.
Those are the best ones. 2 of the 5 best popes in history didn't want it (Gregory I and Benedict XVI).

Actually, good popes not wanting it is a tradition that goes all the way back to Simon Peter.

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I mean really...I couldn't care less about the pope. I can't recall anything relevant that Pope Benedict did.
Benedict did a lot, but it was all very quiet. He did a lot to reform the liturgy (if you go to a catholic Mass, everything will be a lot less cheesy and dumb than ten years ago). He also exercised more control in the nomination of nuncios and bishops than normal (which basically means almost everyone who was hired in the church hierarchy in the last eight years was personally chosen by him) (Which probably means there are a lot less heretics and perverts now than before). These are important things. He didn't go around calling for the arrest of every bishop who concealed a child molester, or anything, (I wish he had; and some think this new guy might) but he didn't just sit there and twiddle his thumbs, either. He's a scholar, not an assertive leader type. Before he quit the papacy, he tried to retire from his last job (which was the 2nd or 3rd most important job in the CC) like 3 times but JP2 wouldn't let him.

If you want to get to the point of why Benedict was a big deal, read one or two of his books. He is the best philosopher / thinker of the last 50 years at least; whether you accept his premises (historicity of the Gospels, Catholic doctrine) or not, the force of his intellect and clarity of his writing are universal. A real intellectual heavy-hitter.

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Old 03-14-2013, 11:48 AM   #50
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

You definitely don't have to be a believer to think that the Pope is one of the most influential people on earth. The catholic church is a huge political player in South/Latin America, Europe, Africa and Asia
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:56 AM   #51
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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You definitely don't have to be a believer to think that the Pope is one of the most influential people on earth. The catholic church is a huge political player in South/Latin America, Europe, Africa and Asia
In America, Roman Catholics use birth control, have abortions, and vote for abortion at the same rate as the national averages. In Europe, fewer than ten percent of Catholics attend mass at least once a week. I think his influence is overstated. He is, however, the most famous person who won't (can't, actually) ride along with the popular notions of the day, so he's a great scapegoat for pseudo-thinkers who lazily float along with modern trends.

Despite calls for change, bears still shit in the woods, and the Pope is still Catholic, even if most Catholics aren't.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:03 PM   #52
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by Clifton
In America, Roman Catholics use birth control, have abortions, and vote for abortion at the same rate as the national averages. In Europe, fewer than ten percent of Catholics attend mass at least once a week. I think his influence is overstated. He is, however, the most famous person who won't (can't, actually) ride along with the popular notions of the day, so he's a great scapegoat for pseudo-thinkers who lazily float along with modern trends.

Despite calls for change, bears still shit in the woods, and the Pope is still Catholic, even if most Catholics aren't.


Well said. Change has/will happen in the Church, it just takes a very, very long time.

The social issues you list aren't found anywhere in the Bible. Church doctrine comes from human interpretation of the gospels being applied to every day society. It is by definition inherently flawed, but it is not always as evil as people make it out to be and it can and will change over time. It's just not a very speedy process.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #53
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Well said. Change has/will happen in the Church, it just takes a very, very long time.

The social issues you list aren't found anywhere in the Bible. Church doctrine comes from human interpretation of the gospels being applied to every day society. It is by definition inherently flawed, but it is not always as evil as people make it out to be and it can and will change over time. It's just not a very speedy process.
Yes and no.

Concerning abortion, Catholics used to hold that *********ion was just like murder, because in Augustine's day they believed that the male's seed was a complete live human being. It was never essential doctrine though.

And thanks to modern science, we know that isn't true. So *********ion is no longer equivalent to murder. But the essential doctrine, which is that you can't kill innocent live human beings, is unchanging.

However, as long as modern science tells us that life begins at conception (when the seed fertilizes the egg) (i.e., the thing that looks like a tadpole on the sonogram and the baby that comes out 8 months later are the same thing and contain the same genetic code), you can't expect church teaching to ever say it's okay, just because it's popular. In fact, if you're actually Catholic, you have to believe that if a Pope ever tried to alter the Church's teaching on this issue, he'd have a heart attack the night before. That's what "Papal infallibility" means - that the Holy Spirit prevents the Pope from teaching false doctrine. The Pope is like a ref who can't make a bad call (concerning doctrine or morals. it's not like he knows who will win the super bowl 20 years from now).

If you're not Catholic, of course, you can think anything you want. And people do. But how many hundred-straight popes (many of whom were outrageously dirty human beings) have to consistently not contradict essential doctrine (which marriage and abortion are) over how many centuries before people will accept that Catholic doctrine is gonna be the same ol' inconvenient, unpopular thing in line with nature and the Bible as ever?
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:31 PM   #54
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by Clifton
Yes and no.

Concerning abortion, Catholics used to hold that *********ion was just like murder, because in Augustine's day they believed that the male's seed was a complete live human being. It was never essential doctrine though.

And thanks to modern science, we know that isn't true. So *********ion is no longer equivalent to murder. But the essential doctrine, which is that you can't kill innocent live human beings, is unchanging.

However, as long as modern science tells us that life begins at conception (when the seed fertilizes the egg) (i.e., the thing that looks like a tadpole on the sonogram and the baby that comes out 8 months later are the same thing and contain the same genetic code), you can't expect church teaching to ever say it's okay, just because it's popular. In fact, if you're actually Catholic, you have to believe that if a Pope ever tried to alter the Church's teaching on this issue, he'd have a heart attack the night before. That's what "Papal infallibility" means - that the Holy Spirit prevents the Pope from teaching false doctrine. The Pope is like a ref who can't make a bad call (concerning doctrine or morals. it's not like he knows who will win the super bowl 20 years from now).

If you're not Catholic, of course, you can think anything you want. And people do. But how many hundred-straight popes (many of whom were outrageously dirty human beings) have to consistently not contradict essential doctrine (which marriage and abortion are) over how many centuries before people will accept that Catholic doctrine is gonna be the same ol' inconvenient, unpopular thing in line with nature and the Bible as ever?


I don't expect the Church ever to change on abortion. The Church's stand on homosexuality, however, stands a better chance of softening over time (we're talking centuries).
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:19 PM   #55
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

Curious to find out what Clifton thinks of Vatican 2, which drastically changed the Church. That was an abrupt change, so the Church has a precedence for change.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:32 PM   #56
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Kate Middleton's baby bump is the spiritual leader of 1.2 billion people? Who knew?

What exactly does the pope do? And 1.2 billion people? Yeah, I'm sure all of them are diehards and hang on every word the pope says. Please.

Pope only makes news when one dies, quits or a new one is just elected.

Even when I was catholic, I had no idea what the pope did. Like wtf does he have to do with some small parish in Texas?
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:34 PM   #57
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by Balla_Status
What exactly does the pope do? And 1.2 billion people? Yeah, I'm sure all of them are diehards and hang on every word the pope says. Please.

Pope only makes news when one dies, quits or a new one is just elected.

Even when I was catholic, I had no idea what the pope did. Like wtf does he have to do with some small parish in Texas?
This.

I'm not Catholic, but always wondered what does the Pope do?
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:20 AM   #58
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Default Re: New Pope Chosen

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Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
This.

I'm not Catholic, but always wondered what does the Pope do?

I answered this in your other post. He sets dogma for entire Catholic faith. Check out Wikipedia if need more answers. Google is your friend too.
In short, the pope is a bishop (Bishop of Rome) so he does bishoply stuff like promote priests to monseignors and since he is a special kind of bishop, so can promote priests to bishop and bishops to cardinals . He is the head of state of his own country, so he does political stuff like deal with a budget. and he also does some writing/scholarly stuff. And he occasionally tours and sells out stadiums so he's like, um,...how can I make this understandable for you, the Jackson Family? So he's like a mix bishop-president-dean-of-a-university who gets to tour in front of thousands of eager fans. My Mom is going to Vatican this April.


They occasionally also get to do other stuff like help bring down Communism
Quote:
Vacel Havel called the Pope's 1979 pilgrimage to Poland "a miracle" and credited John Paul II's contribution during the trip with being more important than anything the leaders of the U.S. or U.S.S.R. had done.
Or on the other hand, tolerate a system that just moves bad actors around instead of admit wrongdoing.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:45 PM   #59
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While looking for something else, I came across this.
Catholic institutions spent about 180 billion in the US in 2010
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Catholic institutions themselves employ over 1 million people in the United States. That would make the church one of the nation’s largest employers, behind only Walmart. It employs far more people than General Electric or McDonald’s or GM or the U.S. Postal Service.
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:08 PM   #60
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The Pope is the head of state of one of the most influential and richest nations in the world, if you don't think his actions have impact then you gotta study world history.
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