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Old 03-24-2013, 10:25 PM   #31
HardwoodLegend
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
allow me to re introduce myself my name is OH




total free throw attempts is invalid since 1 free throw does not equal 1 shot

2 free throws equal 1 shot

like my equation in the shaq vs anderson total shots. i took total free throws per game and devided by 2. then added to total fga's

in 2001

kobe 8.2 divided by 2 = 4.1

22.2 + 4.1 = 26.3

shaq 13.1 divided by 2 = 6.5

19.2 + 6.5 = 25.7

---------------------------------

in 2002

kobe 7.4 divided by 2 = 3.7

20 + 3.7 = 23.7

shaq 10.7 divided by 2 = 5.3

18.3 + 5.3 = 23.6


That doesn't take into account 3-point plays, which Shaq got a lot of.

So you're half-changing him a lot of attempts when you divide by 2.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:32 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
That doesn't take into account 3-point plays, which Shaq got a lot of.

So you're half-changing him a lot of attempts when you divide by 2.
That would make FTs even less important since Shaq was then getting an FG attempt and an FT attempt on one possesion. Meaning he used even less possessions.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
That doesn't take into account 3-point plays, which Shaq got a lot of.

So you're half-changing him a lot of attempts when you divide by 2.



are you insane?

if anything that makes shaqs overall adjusted fga's go down. not up

since you'd have to combine 1-2 of shaqs free throw attempts per game with 1-2 of shaqs actual fga's
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:35 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
That would make FTs even less important since Shaq was then getting an FG attempt and an FT attempt on one possesion. Meaning he used even less possessions.

True.

It's a silly criteria anyway. Shaq was still the #1 option for longer than kenneth is giving him credit for. A lot of Kobe's attempts are ill-advised shots that he jacked up to disrupt the intended flow of the offense.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
True.

It's a silly criteria anyway. Shaq was still the #1 option for longer than kenneth is giving him credit for. A lot of Kobe's attempts are ill-advised shots that he jacked up to disrupt the intended flow of the offense.
yup.. IDK why he doesnt use 05 to now since the ppg is higher.

Or just retitle it '3rd highest prime ppg'
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
yup.. IDK why he doesnt use 05 to now since the ppg is higher.

Or just retitle it '3rd highest prime ppg'

I'd throw in 2003-04 because that's when Kobe's impatience was at its all-time high and he shot the Lakers out of a championship in the Finals.

That puts him at 28.2 PPG.

And, I'd take out LeBron's rookie season, because he was still learning the ropes and expected to play 2nd fiddle to Ricky Davis.

That puts LeBron at 28.3 PPG.

Kobe is 4th.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Also .. Oscar Robertson 29.6ppg in seasons leading his team in FGA. And I haven't done the math but I'm willing to bet Elgin Baylor is higher than Kobe too.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
True.

It's a silly criteria anyway. Shaq was still the #1 option for longer than kenneth is giving him credit for. A lot of Kobe's attempts are ill-advised shots that he jacked up to disrupt the intended flow of the offense.


kobe was verry under control with his shot attempts pre 2003

was much more within the offense

because before 2003 he wasnt fully confident in his 3 point shot

so.... wrong again

kobe was the legit 1st option in 2001 and 2002.

mainly because he brought the ball up the court and made himself the 1st option ( obviously )

i'm sure if they didnt have kobe as the main ball handler/play maker.. maybe shaq would have got more shots

but the fact is. kobe was the 1st option whether people like it or not

it also has allot to do with hackashaq and late games being close. kobe having to take over


i'm sure shaq was on average the #1 option for the 1st half of games. kobe was the clear 1st option in 2nd halfs... and it averaged out to more for kobe since he didnt have to take quarters off to avoid shooting ft's
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

The first option is the person the other team game plans around (or thinks, **** it, we can stop him so we'll try to limit the other guys). Usually coincides with who plays better as well.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:30 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

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Originally Posted by Simple Jack
The first option is the person the other team game plans around (or thinks, **** it, we can stop him so we'll try to limit the other guys). Usually coincides with who plays better as well.


so steve nash was the 1st option on those phoenix teams?

the game plan was to stop him.




man just give up


everyone give up
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:33 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
I'd throw in 2003-04 because that's when Kobe's impatience was at its all-time high and he shot the Lakers out of a championship in the Finals.

Yeah, it was all Kobe's fault. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shooting 33%, Malone injured, Shaq's lazy play defensively and on the boards, Payton's atrocious play and having a weak bench had nothing to do with it. It's all Kobe's fault. Yup, he shot the Lakers out of a championship, that's why the biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, right?

What a moron.

Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.

Lakers assistant coach Tex Winter: "Shaq defeated himself against Detroit. He played way too passively. He had one big game ... He's always interested in being a scorer, but he hasn't had nearly enough concentration on defense and rebounding."

Now nobody would claim Kobe had a good, or even respectable series for a player of his caliber. His shot selection in particular was terrible (but at least he played good defense in that series) But it wasn't only that, Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... and Shaq only had the one great game that series.

Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. Gary Payton was a bad fit and even criticized the triangle offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him all just forcing up bad shots.

The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip Hamilton and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Payton averaged 4 ppg on 32% shooting in that series and looked slow defensively as Billups torched him for 21 ppg on 51% shooting and 47% on 3s. Malone was limping around that whole series. He couldn't contribute due to his injury and was a non-factor. Neither played at any notable level that series. To completely blame Kobe for losing is absolutely ridiculous considering the level they were actually at during that series. Malone due to being a 40/41 year old playing through an injury, and Payton was just embarrassingly incompetent.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:33 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
so steve nash was the 1st option on those phoenix teams?

the game plan was to stop him.




man just give up


everyone give up

Naw bro. You gotta give up.

Kobe is 4th behind LeBron's 28.5 (I took out 2010-11 since LeBron and Wade struggled to see who was #1 that season).
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:35 PM   #43
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

When it comes right down to it I'd rather have Robert Horry on my team. He makes the shot when it matters. And more rings.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
Yeah, it was all Kobe's fault. The rest of the team outside of Shaq shooting 33%, Malone injured, Shaq's lazy play defensively and on the boards, Payton's atrocious play and having a weak bench had nothing to do with it. It's all Kobe's fault. Yup, he shot the Lakers out of a championship, that's why the biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, right?

What a moron.

Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.

Lakers assistant coach Tex Winter: "Shaq defeated himself against Detroit. He played way too passively. He had one big game ... He's always interested in being a scorer, but he hasn't had nearly enough concentration on defense and rebounding."

Now nobody would claim Kobe had a good, or even respectable series for a player of his caliber. His shot selection in particular was terrible (but at least he played good defense in that series) But it wasn't only that, Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... and Shaq only had the one great game that series.

Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. Gary Payton was a bad fit and even criticized the triangle offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him all just forcing up bad shots.

The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip Hamilton and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Payton averaged 4 ppg on 32% shooting in that series and looked slow defensively as Billups torched him for 21 ppg on 51% shooting and 47% on 3s. Malone was limping around that whole series. He couldn't contribute due to his injury and was a non-factor. Neither played at any notable level that series. To completely blame Kobe for losing is absolutely ridiculous considering the level they were actually at during that series. Malone due to being a 40/41 year old playing through an injury, and Payton was just embarrassingly incompetent.

Ya boy shot them out of the series as he desperately gunned for the Finals MVP.

Stop.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: Kobe Bryant has the 3rd leading PPG all time as a #1 option

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
so steve nash was the 1st option on those phoenix teams?

the game plan was to stop him.




man just give up


everyone give up

It wasn't always clear with that team. Wasn't as if they were throwing doubles at Nash to take him out of the game. Teams weren't watching tape, thinking about tailoring their defense around stopping Steve Nash. Plenty of times they would try to limit Amare or Marion (earlier). Hard to focus on one player when you had 5 guys who all spread the floor and could score prolifically.


It was clear with the Lakers who opposing defenses were trying to limit.
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