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Old 03-26-2013, 05:14 PM   #91
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
That is a theory by nay Sayers...


She was able to describe all the instruments used on her during the operation without ever seeing them...(like most NDEs)...how does a dream do that?

That isn't a theory. That is the order of events. She recalls things from the operation prep and she recalls going back into her body. She doesn't recall anything from the time when she was "dead." Remember the operation took a number of hours but she was only at a stand still for a 5 minute window, a window where she doesn't recall anything. The biggest thing NDEers love to claim about this case is that it happens during a time when it is impossible for her brain to be working. It is only a 5 minute window. She isn't brain dead for hours and floating around the hospital. When she sees the tools and notices her shaved head for instance her brain is still creating EPs.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:14 PM   #92
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

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Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Shvler if it was "fact" they can reproduce them in a lab there would be no one debating them...the author would have no book, etc.

The people that believe are the people that have them....ALL OF THEM...the naysayers are the people on the outside
I never said that they could "reproduce them in a lab." I said there are medically observed phenomena that reproduce the SYMPTOMS of NDE's.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:22 PM   #93
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

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Originally Posted by miller-time
That isn't a theory. That is the order of events. She recalls things from the operation prep and she recalls going back into her body. She doesn't recall anything from the time when she was "dead." Remember the operation took a number of hours but she was only at a stand still for a 5 minute window, a window where she doesn't recall anything. The biggest thing NDEers love to claim about this case is that it happens during a time when it is impossible for her brain to be working. It is only a 5 minute window. She isn't brain dead for hours and floating around the hospital. When she sees the tools and notices her shaved head for instance her brain is still creating EPs.
Her doctor claims no brain waves for over an hour...watch the video.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:24 PM   #94
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

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Originally Posted by shlver
I never said that they could "reproduce them in a lab." I said there are medically observed phenomena that reproduce the SYMPTOMS of NDE's.
No, again they can produce similar symptoms, but not an actual NDE

No one is seeing their dead relatives on kentamine
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:25 PM   #95
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
they do actually...they call it "the void"

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research15.html

it isn't like the Christian hell of burning for eternity, but it is "hell" in a sense
Oh really? So now Hell is "the void" intradesting!!

People see Heaven, beautiful girls, relatives, talk to animals, angels.
People see hell, "the void" looooooooool

What happen to the demons, and the flames, the lakes of fire?


The Void!!!

Quote:
the void is a beautiful and heavenly experience because, in the absence of all else, they are able to perfectly see the love and light they have cultivated within themselves
Sounds scary



The void
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:25 PM   #96
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
No, again they can produce similar symptoms, but not an actual NDE

No one is seeing their dead relatives on kentamine
Do you even read my posts? You're just raving with no comprehension of what I'm posting.
Quote:
Do not misconstrue this to mean we know the source of a "true NDE." All we glean from this is that under certain physiological conditions, the brain is capable of creating a similar experience.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:35 PM   #97
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
Her doctor claims no brain waves for over an hour...watch the video.

That is wrong. I've watched the video before. I don't think they even claim that in the video but they edit it in such a way so the viewer can assume that is the case. But they simply can't stop the brain functioning for that long without damaging it. They have to get her body temperature right down and stop the blood flowing to her brain to stop it from functioning. Doing that for any longer than a few minutes would be terrible. Once her body functions again her brain would fire up straight away.

Quote:
The body can not live for more than 7 minutes without blood circulating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standstill_operation
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:40 PM   #98
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
No one is seeing their dead relatives on kentamine

Ketamine not kentamine. But they do see things on DMT don't they. Which is also an endogenous compound.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:28 PM   #99
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

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He is claiming he DOES know
How do you write a book and still "claim" to know. Facts n!gga, we need facts
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #100
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
Do you even read my posts? You're just raving with no comprehension of what I'm posting.
okay but why bring that up? there is no good in it from a scientific stand point. You agree that an NDE can not be reproduced with drugs but that there are "some" symptoms that are "similar" to an NDE...that doesn't mean anything really.

the truth is though from what I have read there is nothing that even comes close to an NDE...again, please read what I am about to say, when someone has an NDE it almost always completely changes them as a person, most come out and dedicate their lives to charity work and helping others...that IS a symptom on an NDE, that IS part of their brain psychology, there is nothing on this planet that can reproduce the kind of impact NDEs have on people, not that we know of anyway.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:02 PM   #101
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
That is wrong. I've watched the video before. I don't think they even claim that in the video but they edit it in such a way so the viewer can assume that is the case. But they simply can't stop the brain functioning for that long without damaging it. They have to get her body temperature right down and stop the blood flowing to her brain to stop it from functioning. Doing that for any longer than a few minutes would be terrible. Once her body functions again her brain would fire up straight away.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standstill_operation
LISTEN TO THE FIRST 30 SECONDS

blood was just drained from her head only, very rare procedure...she was dead for a full hour, no brain waves
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:09 PM   #102
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
Ketamine not kentamine. But they do see things on DMT don't they. Which is also an endogenous compound.
from what I have read about DMT and ketamine is that they can produce a pretty crazy psychedelic trip where people claim to have an out of body and are able to see themselves from the outside...

but you know what, to me that is just more proof that our consciousness and brain are NOT THE SAME THING...they can be separated, the brain is just a holding vessel for our consciousness.

Joe Rogan did it and I listened to his experience and it does seem insane, but it wasn't an NDE...If I remember correctly he did say he was able to fly over LA though.



there is another phenomenon that is called the "astral plane" it is like a level between our world and the "other side"...an there are those that claim they are able to travel on it why in deep meditation...and can see others traveling on it as well.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:09 PM   #103
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
when someone has an NDE it almost always completely changes them as a person, most come out and dedicate their lives to charity work and helping others...
Can you share the data that supports this claim? No you can't.

I'm gonna explain this to you. Even if true, those idiots thought they saw proof of heaven, so what they are doing is nothing else but looking out for themselves, they are trying secure their place on paradise. It's not from the kindness of their hearts, it's not altruism, THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THEMSELFS LIKE THE EVERY ANIMAL ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET DOES.


NOW I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM DEDICATE THEIR LIVES TO CHARITY BELIEVING THAT THERE IS NOTHING ELSE BEYOND DEATH!


HOW ABOUT THAT?
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:19 PM   #104
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

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Originally Posted by shlver
No they can. Turning to the supernatural and ignoring scientific and practical explanations is not credible despite it coming from the mouth of a neurosurgeon.
^^^ see that, that is your problem shlver...and other naysayers problem

STOP viewing this as "supernatural"...or "magic"...or "mystical"...etc

instead view it as an extension of science...a new science...perhaps these spirits are composed of their own unique particles that don't exist in our 3D dimension...their world made of of it's own unique laws...etc

why is out of the realm of possibility for other dimensions to exist?...seems like that would go against science to just reject that possibility.

you are probably very quick to say that life likely exists outside of our own planet, but why not quick to say that other dimensions don't exist?...why so close minded as to act as though all that exists is our universe?
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:25 PM   #105
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Default Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
Can you share the data that supports this claim? No you can't.
Quote:
Adults who had NDEs gave more money to charity than control subjects, volunteered in the community, were in helping professions, did not suffer from drug abuse, use many over-the-counter medications, and ate more fresh fruit and vegetables than control populations.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/experts06.html

Quote:
NDEs are also associated with changes in personality and outlook on life.[22] Kenneth Ring (professor of psychology) has identified a consistent set of value and belief changes associated with people who have had a near-death experience. Among these changes one finds a greater appreciation for life, higher self-esteem, greater compassion for others, a heightened sense of purpose and self-understanding, desire to learn, elevated spirituality, greater ecological sensitivity and planetary concern, and a feeling of being more intuitive. Changes may also include increased physical sensitivity; diminished tolerance of light, alcohol, and drugs; a feeling that the brain has been "altered" to encompass more; and a feeling that one is now using the "whole brain" rather than a small part.[22]
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