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Old 04-02-2013, 02:46 PM   #31
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

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Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
I think he means after winning the 3 with Shaq.

this. how is that guy a mod? he doesn't even know how to comprehend.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

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Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
Would like to see what KB8 could have done in a Nets jersey with smooth Jason Kidd in his Finals days
It's great on paper but Bryant's game may not work well with a ball-dominant PG. As much as he has the ball in his hands he's better off with a great shooter that works off the ball at PG. Kidd didn't start shooting 3s well until he was in Dallas, before that he was in the low-to-mid 30%s.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #33
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

What is this non-sense about sacrificing numbers?

The only year that might have come into play was 00. Before then, no coach was going to allow Kobe to take all the shots he wanted because he wasn't ****ing good enough to do it.

And my god...Kobe still took 18 shots a game in 00. I will repeat that...18 shots a game. This is a complete joke from Kobe and his fans....

Lebron currently takes 18 shots a game
Harden currently takes 17 shots a game
Durant currently takes 18 shots a game
Westbrook takes 19 shots a game
Curry takes 18 shots a game

Is Harden sacrificing numbers on the Rockets? Holy shit...

Kobe was playing 38 minutes and taking a "first option" number of shots

I will say it again. No coach would ever allow a rookie or 2nd year Kobe to take a lot of shots because he wasn't that good yet. He improved dramatically from year 2 to year 3, but even then he wasn't ready to really make that jump which came from year 4 to year 5.

The revisionist history is total BS.

And the part about leaving to go win. He ****ing ran Shaq out of town as he just admitted he wanted to win without him...and then he's going to leave? What kind of nonsense is that?

You could make a strong argument that Kobe has had enough help around him to win a title in 14 of his 17 years in the league.

Kobe...STFU...you've had one of the most blessed careers ever...if not the most.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
Sorry, what you don't understand is that SA does not operate under the same salary extravagance as LAL. They stay under the luxury tax as much as possible so unless Kobe agreed to be paid peanuts, he wouldn't be going to SA as SA would not be letting Tim Duncan go for Kobe.

I understand.

Oh well, it would have been fun if it happened.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
San Antonio.

This.

Tim's offensive game would mesh with Kobe's perfectly. Think Kobe/Gasol on steroids, but with dominant instant-championship defensive presence on Tim's behalf. Also with Kobe on the Spurs not only do they still win championships, they probably win more than 3 without having to go through a rebuilding stage like the Lakers did from '05-'08.

Compared to Shaq, Duncan was consistently on another tier as far as defensive impact goes, was consistently more healthy, less injury prone and more dedicated and professional as far as "rehabbing on company time" and conditioning goes. This part is pure speculation on my behalf, but it would seem Duncan has the type of personality that would prevent a lot of the clashes Shaq and Kobe had. The Kobe/Duncan duo wouldn't had even ever broken up and Tim's been playing at pretty much the same high level consistently and the Lakers wouldn't have had to waste 3 years of Kobe's prime trying to rebuild. If we're going the "alternate NBA history" route, I could see the Kobe/Duncan Lakers sitting at 6-8 rings.

I also like a Kobe/Garnett duo's shot at multiple championships as well....
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:49 PM   #36
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
If I am right, I think it was the Godfather comparison where he compared the 3 top guards he played alongside with. He said Penny=Fredo, Kobe=Sonny, and Wade=Michael... But I might be incorrect here.

That's actually pretty funny.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #37
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
I think he means after winning the 3 with Shaq.
Could be, but that isn't said in the quote.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:50 PM   #38
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

The Kobe hate is stupid. Nothing wrong with what he said at all.
And stop the BS Kobe is better then Iverson, Carter, and YES T-Mac ever was.

He wanted to win without Shaq and he did TWICE....IN A ROW NO LESS.

So please stop with the BS and respect one of the greatest to ever lace up a pair in the NBA.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #39
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Kobe was too immature to go to other team and take them to the championship. He was more of a ball hog than he is today and didn't had the experience. Like most people said, he could've gone to SA and won but POP wouldn't let him score as much as Phil reluctantly did. His numbers would've suffered or he would've ruined the Spurs chemistry.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:53 PM   #40
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

gino: Kobe did not run Shaq out of town. That's an unsubstantiated rumor and it's been proven to be false. Jerry Buss said that they would do anything to resign Kobe, and bruised Shaq's ego.

Shaq wanted a max contract extension (and publicly called out Jerry Buss during an exhibition game that season). Jerry Buss refused. After the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the Finals, Shaq publicly demanded to be traded because Buss refused to give him max money. The Lakers decided to deal him. Bryant had already decided to sign with the Clippers, but Buss made a last-ditch effort to Bryant because he knew how disasterous it would be from a public relations standpoint for the Lakers to lose both of their superstars in one offseason. Bryant has admitted he talked to Jerry West and West advised him to stay with the Lakers. Buss and Kupchak convinced him they'd rebuild the franchise and bring in top talent. So, he re-signed with the Lakers.

Saying Bryant ran Shaq out of L.A. is the easy scenario that people like to latch on to, but it's pretty far from the actual truth.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:57 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
gino: Kobe did not run Shaq out of town. That's an unsubstantiated rumor and it's been proven to be false. Jerry Buss said that they would do anything to resign Kobe, and bruised Shaq's ego.

Shaq wanted a max contract extension (and publicly called out Jerry Buss during an exhibition game that season). Jerry Buss refused. After the Lakers lost to the Pistons in the Finals, Shaq publicly demanded to be traded because Buss refused to give him max money. The Lakers decided to deal him. Bryant had already decided to sign with the Clippers, but Buss made a last-ditch effort to Bryant because he knew how disasterous it would be from a public relations standpoint for the Lakers to lose both of their superstars in one offseason. Bryant has admitted he talked to Jerry West and West advised him to stay with the Lakers. Buss and Kupchak convinced him they'd rebuild the franchise and bring in top talent. So, he re-signed with the Lakers.

Saying Bryant ran Shaq out of L.A. is the easy scenario that people like to latch on to, but it's pretty far from the actual truth.

Kobe just got done saying he wanted to win without him. What do you think that means? That means either Kobe leaves or Shaq leaves. If you think Kobe didn't play a part in the whole thing...I just give up. If they had brought Shaq back...Kobe would have left. Simple as that...they obviously knew that...hell, we as the fans could see that coming. And believe me, the ownership and gm knew a lot more than us fans.

I'm not saying it was all on Kobe, but you just heard it from his mouth. Not hard to understand.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

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Originally Posted by Dro
I'm not mad at Kobe for this, in fact, I kind've agree with him. Yes, you want to win but we all know that individual accolades and stats count for a lot also. In a perfect world, you want both. He won his 3 rings, then did his own thing and built his historical status up and even won 2 more rings. Id say Kobe did it about as well as you could. I'm not a fan of how he handled the whole Shaq situation but I completely understand how he feels...You have all this immense talent yet there's always somebody over your shoulder, calling you the little brother, calling himself superman, etc..Its like b!tch, I got talent too and I need to be able to show it...No different than the average person who is very talented with say computes, or music, etc and not being able to fully let your talents be seen...It can eat you up on the inside, no matter how much "success" you may have...It depends on how that success came..Did you gain that success because you NEEDED to use every ounce of talent you had, or did you win because someone else did most of the heavy lifting, even though on the inside, you feel you could do the same if given the opportunity...People really need to think and put themselves in other's situations and honestly ask yourself, how would you feel...



This is right. This is my Bosh problem. He's not sacrificing personal glory or stats, but he's playing below his level. That's not commendable.


My problem with Bryant is that he's always trying to prove something. He has all his accolades checked off but he's subverted a lot throughout his career. I also don't see any reason why Michael and Wilt shouldn't be able to play together. The issue with Shaq and Kobe was that the order was too focused and O'Neal is a stats guy. No room for Bryant there...add that Kobe is a petulant piece of shit and it's hard for them to coexist.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:01 PM   #43
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
I would have went some place else and won more championships[/b]," Bryant said. "That's how driven I was. I was just that obsessed about winning without him. Everything was about that. I was obsessive about it and there was nothing that was going to get in my way."
]

Why was he not obsessive about winning without Phil? Phil was the key not Shaq. They had been swept in back to back years by the aging Jazz before Phil arrived to save both of them.

Quote:
If you're talking about because of the system, sure he wouldn't find a better system than LA or SA

There's plenty of systems as good or better like the flex or Princeton(that worked well for Kobe didn't it?)

Quote:
Kevin Garnett with the Wolves too.

KG makes a lot of sense because he was unselfish but they would have needed a new coach.

Quote:
Look at his performance in the Finals the next year, when the only differences between him and O'Neal were the fouls Shaq got away with and the centers the Nets had.

Look at his selfish performance in the attempted 4 peat which they lost to a much inferior team because of his AI type gunning.
.
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:01 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
This is right. This is my Bosh problem. He's not sacrificing personal glory or stats, but he's playing below his level. That's not commendable.


My problem with Bryant is that he's always trying to prove something. He has all his accolades checked off but he's subverted a lot throughout his career. I also don't see any reason why Michael and Wilt shouldn't be able to play together. The issue with Shaq and Kobe was that the order was too focused and O'Neal is a stats guy. No room for Bryant there...add that Kobe is a petulant piece of shit and it's hard for them to coexist.

What more did Kobe want

From 00 through 04...Kobe took the following number of shots

18
22
20
24
18

Those are first option shots. LOL
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Old 04-02-2013, 03:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

I'm not sure what to think of this...will comment later.

Immediately, I'm tempted to challenge the claim that he sacrificed more (or even close to as much as) he gained by playing with Shaq.

Also, I'm not sure if he's saying he would have won as much elsewhere, and I don't think he is, but I think it's reasonable to assume he would have won at least once or twice elsewhere. If he played in the East, for example, with a good roster, nothing too egregious, he'd at least make the ECF every year. Even in the West, a team with Prime Kobe would be a threat, as long as they can avoid San Antonio.

Anyway, I'm gonna give it some more thought.
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