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Old 04-02-2013, 02:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

The Godfather quote is a stupid one. It's a shame Penny got hurt...Shaq hardly ever knows what he's talking about. This guy called Penny/Shaq the best backcourt he ever played with...I'm sorry, where was Nick Anderson? The guy dislikes who he dislikes and he digs himself. Nothing he says should ever be taken seriously...well, that's not fair. So, just almost never.

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Frescobaldi
Would like to see what KB8 could have done in a Nets jersey with smooth Jason Kidd in his Finals days


That would have been fun...also, there was a lot of talk of Kobe and KG signing together in Memphis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Men Wear Green
It's great on paper but Bryant's game may not work well with a ball-dominant PG. As much as he has the ball in his hands he's better off with a great shooter that works off the ball at PG. Kidd didn't start shooting 3s well until he was in Dallas, before that he was in the low-to-mid 30%s.


Can't call Jason Kidd ball-dominant, at all. Watching with NJ, one of his greatest qualities was putting the rock in other hands, letting Kittles bring the ball downcourt and running plays, etc. There isn't a non-PG who can't work with Jason Kidd.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #47
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Kobe going full retard just like his dickriders.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:08 PM   #48
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
This is right. This is my Bosh problem. He's not sacrificing personal glory or stats, but he's playing below his level. That's not commendable.


My problem with Bryant is that he's always trying to prove something. He has all his accolades checked off but he's subverted a lot throughout his career. I also don't see any reason why Michael and Wilt shouldn't be able to play together. The issue with Shaq and Kobe was that the order was too focused and O'Neal is a stats guy. No room for Bryant there...add that Kobe is a petulant piece of shit and it's hard for them to coexist.
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you...Bosh is obviously playing below his level, and in the process actually has NBA fans thinking guys like Griffin, Kevin Love, etc are better than him. They are not better than Bosh. Bosh carried a franchise and was the man on that team and put up excellent stats without much help around him. He has a great jumper, can take it off the dribble, is an underrated passer and I think he is a good help defender although his individual defense needs to improve...Actually, Bosh's attitude is commendable because on the inside, I would be a bit upset knowing that I am not showcasing my talents like I would like. But Bosh has 1 ring now. If he gets another, he may elect to go elsewhere. Whether or not he is actually capable of winning the ring as the man is anybody's guess...
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
Kobe just got done saying he wanted to win without him. What do you think that means? That means either Kobe leaves or Shaq leaves. If you think Kobe didn't play a part in the whole thing...I just give up. If they had brought Shaq back...Kobe would have left. Simple as that...they obviously knew that...hell, we as the fans could see that coming. And believe me, the ownership and gm knew a lot more than us fans.

I'm not saying it was all on Kobe, but you just heard it from his mouth. Not hard to understand.

And where would he go? Not to SA - as I said earlier, luxury tax consequences and can you imagine Pop with his philosophy of bring in character/team players and the later rape circus? Those fantasizing this especially with a Manu and Parker who would never develop with Kobe chucking are nuts.

MIN with KG - nope - Joe Smith fiasco.

I'd like to know where he would go to win more rings post-Shaq.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #50
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
This is right. This is my Bosh problem. He's not sacrificing personal glory or stats, but he's playing below his level. That's not commendable.


My problem with Bryant is that he's always trying to prove something. He has all his accolades checked off but he's subverted a lot throughout his career. I also don't see any reason why Michael and Wilt shouldn't be able to play together. The issue with Shaq and Kobe was that the order was too focused and O'Neal is a stats guy. No room for Bryant there...add that Kobe is a petulant piece of shit and it's hard for them to coexist.

This. Dude is just way too insecure. He obviously wants everyone to think he contributed just as much to those 3 titles as Shaq did, and for them to be put on the same level as those won by Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan. Whether they should be or not, if he actually believes that, then why the hell does he feel the need to constantly talk about what he sacrificed? Cause I don't hear any of those other players always talking about what they sacrificed during their championship years when it comes to statistics, awards, their role, etc.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #51
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

I have to comment about the people saying Kobe could have won with other players. Sure, but I don't think so from 00 to 02.

Maybe if he was on a loaded team or something, but if he had to deal with Shaq and not play with him...and I'm not sure even a Kobe / KG or Kobe / Duncan duo gets by the 02 Kings...or even 00 Blazers.

But isn't that kind of silly to begin with. That is like me saying, as a Dirk fan, that Dirk would have won titles playing with KG and Duncan. LOL...No shit. Anytime you start pairing up 2 of the 15 or 20 best players of all time in their primes...you are going to likely win some titles.

And while winning is always impressive, it's not unexpected. KG and Dirk on the same team for 8 years? Yea...I'd bet my life that yields 2 or 3 titles.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #52
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
And where would he go? Not to SA - as I said earlier, luxury tax consequences and can you imagine Pop with his philosophy of bring in character/team players and the later rape circus? Those fantasizing this especially with a Manu and Parker who would never develop with Kobe chucking are nuts.

MIN with KG - nope - Joe Smith fiasco.

I'd like to know where he would go to win more rings post-Shaq.
If you really don't think Kobe could win 1 ring with a Kevin Garnett, even a Chris Bosh type of talent, then we're really underrating Kobe during his prime..Regardless of how much he was shooting, he was definitely good enough to win a ring as long as he had, not even an elite big man but just a good one..
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #53
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
And where would he go? Not to SA - as I said earlier, luxury tax consequences and can you imagine Pop with his philosophy of bring in character/team players and the later rape circus? Those fantasizing this especially with a Manu and Parker who would never develop with Kobe chucking are nuts.

MIN with KG - nope - Joe Smith fiasco.

I'd like to know where he would go to win more rings post-Shaq.

I don't know about the winning part...but all the evidence sure seems to point to him leaving if Shaq had come back.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:12 PM   #54
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Can't call Jason Kidd ball-dominant, at all. Watching with NJ, one of his greatest qualities was putting the rock in other hands, letting Kittles bring the ball downcourt and running plays, etc. There isn't a non-PG who can't work with Jason Kidd.
What Kittles did with the ball doesn't compare to Bryant. Of course Kidd dominated the ball, you don't get lot of assists if the ball isn't in your hands. He wasn't selfish but Kidd isn't Kidd if he's not running the show. He and Bryant may have worked out but one or both would have to give up some touches.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:12 PM   #55
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Lebron currently takes 18 shots a game
Harden currently takes 17 shots a game
Durant currently takes 18 shots a game
Westbrook takes 19 shots a game
Curry takes 18 shots a game

You got to take into consideration how may FT's a guy takes too. Those don't count as attempts.

Kobe also ran Phil out of town! He thought he could do it all on his own. He was headed to the Clippers not to SA or Minnesota. Who on the Clippers was helping him win rings? Donald Sterling?
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
And my god...Kobe still took 18 shots a game in 00. I will repeat that...18 shots a game. This is a complete joke from Kobe and his fans....

Lebron currently takes 18 shots a game
Harden currently takes 17 shots a game
Durant currently takes 18 shots a game
Westbrook takes 19 shots a game
Curry takes 18 shots a game

00' was a whole different era in basketball than today's game.

Hand-checking was still allowed in 00' and the 3 point-shot wasn't as heavily used as in today's game.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #57
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dro
If you really don't think Kobe could win 1 ring with a Kevin Garnett, even a Chris Bosh type of talent, then we're really underrating Kobe during his prime..Regardless of how much he was shooting, he was definitely good enough to win a ring as long as he had, not even an elite big man but just a good one..

Well, KG is an elite player. One of the 15 or so best players ever. So of course Kobe could have won with him.

But Bosh? I don't think Bosh is good enough to be the 2nd best player on a title winning team. Maybe if the rest of the team was really deep and loaded, but I'd still be uncertain.

Bosh has never played at the level Gasol did for those two titles on both ends.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

@ DMAVS41

Let's say Kobe leaves the Lakers and goes to Dallas, how well do you think a Dirk-Kobe duo works in the long-run ? Do hey thrive and win multiple titles or they hinder each other early on because of the similarity of their scoring in terms of taking a lot of jumpshots/#1 option status ?

I personally think it would be great, since he would also be joining a franchise, owner, and player that is dedicated to winning.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by scm5
00' was a whole different era in basketball than today's game.

Hand-checking was still allowed in 00' and the 3 point-shot wasn't as heavily used as in today's game.

Don't get the point...
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:14 PM   #60
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Default Re: Kobe: I had too much talent and too much to showcase

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAVS41
What more did Kobe want

From 00 through 04...Kobe took the following number of shots

18
22
20
24
18

Those are first option shots. LOL


Stop reading numbers, man. Look at the FT numbers Shaq had. Shaq was the first option and that's not arguable.


The main issue was Shaq's personality meshing with Kobe's. The revisionism comes from people who talk about Bryant being like this guy or that guy if not for O'Neal. O'Neal was #1 and with him Byrant was not only not going to be the first option but he was not going to get the same respect. He was better than Shaq thru most of the 2001 playoffs. A lot of people noticed but a lot of people do what they do here. Kobe was a beast in the Finals and he was really more impressive but who even remembers him doing anything?

Kobe's personality is obnoxious. I do think he was unselfish for most of his time with O'Neal...mixed lots of petulance. But if you wanna read shot attempts then that's revisionism. Anyone watching at the time understood.
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