Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-10-2013, 04:45 AM   #61
Balla_Status
______________________
 
Balla_Status's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,911
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatGreg
Actually, idiot, I identify myself as a Independent libertarian. Think small & constitution adhering government, free markets, and foreign peace.

No, Thatcher wasn't a perfect politician. But her vehement defending of liberty and the free market, essentials in a developed nation such as the UK, should not go unnoticed by people like you.

It's funny. He's trying to insult you by saying you watch Bill O' Reilly when he's using the same tactics (insults, inferred raising of voice) as Bill O' Reilly in this thread.

Also you can tell he's very ignorant with the Reagan and Fox News BS. But not after he tells you that you're ignorant.

All the people celebrating her death are those that have no jobs and do nothing as there are pictures of people celebrating during the day time.
Balla_Status is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 06:10 AM   #62
senelcoolidge
College star
 
senelcoolidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: At home
Posts: 4,059
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
England was a disgrace in the late 70s. Thatcher came in and took the country back from labor union thugs and made the UK relevant on the world stage again. She wasn't perfect by any means but she was so much better than what the left was offering at the time.

Very true. Future rep.
senelcoolidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 08:28 AM   #63
UK-NJ
High School Starter
 
UK-NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 842
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

As a working class northerner who's grown up around miners families directly affected by Thatcher's regime I find it very hard to believe I'm seeing people defend her. It genuinely beggars belief.

I think a lot of you would change your mind about her if you'd lived in England at the time. Well, that is unless you're all loaded & money's no object.
UK-NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:23 AM   #64
FPJ
....
 
FPJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 516
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

WOW

Ive never seen anyone getting so much heat after passing away. In Liverpool they are giving free pints in bars, in Scotland and Ireland it looks like they just won the WORLD Cup. Argentina is celebrating too.

Funniest thing is that they wanted to give her a State funeral after all she did.

Fun fact: When she made that poll tax, the police later refused to arrest people cause 1 out of 3 people refused to pay it. A lot of people had it rough cause of her.
FPJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #65
rufuspaul
Kubla Kemba
 
rufuspaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 20,299
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-NJ
As a working class northerner who's grown up around miners families directly affected by Thatcher's regime I find it very hard to believe I'm seeing people defend her. It genuinely beggars belief.

I think a lot of you would change your mind about her if you'd lived in England at the time. Well, that is unless you're all loaded & money's no object.


Sadly the mining and manufacturing industries in England, just like the US, were on their way out regardless of what Thatcher or any other PM did. The only reason they were still around was because the unions had the government by the balls. By standing up to the unions she helped speed up the demise but she also prevented the entire country from going down with them.

Thatcher haters are ranting like she was this autocratic despot who took power by force and ruled as a cruel dictator. If I recall correctly she was democratically elected 3 times by overwhelming majorities.
rufuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:22 PM   #66
UK-NJ
High School Starter
 
UK-NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Sheffield, England
Posts: 842
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
42 reasons to loathe Margaret Thatcher

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment.
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry, creating the untenable situation Britain endures today whereby we import everything from either Germany, the USA, or China. Britain went from a world leader in manufacturing to an international joke.
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws.
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher" being a popular slogan at the time).
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that has turned out).
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration.
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership).
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million, and this still does not take into account those forced on to incapacity benefits.
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands.
10. The poll tax (an unfair tax levied equally on every member of society regardless of income)
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad.
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War.
13. She privatised state monopolies such as energy and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years.
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS.
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits which led directly to the 2008 crash.
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA, prior to this support had been more bilateral and measured.
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control.
18. Section 28, a homophobic clause reading that a local council "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality" or "promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship".
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist".
20. She supported the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers.
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population.
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany.
23. She invented Quangos (shady government/private bodies with powers to influence policy but very little supervision)
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%, an evil flat tax on all.
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet.
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike.
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%.
31. BSE (deregulation of what could be fed to farm animals).
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession.
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process, exacerbating the feeling of unrest amongst the Catholic population.
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa during apartied.
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin, corruption after corruption.
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher.
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion.
38. Poverty doubled whilst she opposed a minimum wage.
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders. British energy bills fund cheap energy for the rest of the continent.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education.
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions.
42. 21.9% inflation.

It's very easy to talk about her policies favourably when you don't have any friends/family who were affected by them. There's a reason she had the lowest approval rating of any Prime minister since the war. 'There's no such thing as society' - yeah, and we're still paying the consequences of that single minded approach to this day. The further dismantling of the NHS by the current coalition is a nail in the coffin to one of the few remaining things that makes this country great.

EDIT: For the record, I concede that there were tough decisions to be made & I understand that. What I struggle to understand is the notion that to help one group prosper, she essentially cut adrift half of the country & left them to fend for themselves. No support framework, nothing to aid reintegration into her model... Nothing. It's that single minded approach that I can't tolerate.

Last edited by UK-NJ : 04-10-2013 at 12:45 PM.
UK-NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:54 PM   #67
rufuspaul
Kubla Kemba
 
rufuspaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 20,299
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-NJ
It's very easy to talk about her policies favourably when you don't have any friends/family who were affected by them. There's a reason she had the lowest approval rating of any Prime minister since the war. 'There's no such thing as society' - yeah, and we're still paying the consequences of that single minded approach to this day. The further dismantling of the NHS by the current coalition is a nail in the coffin to one of the few remaining things that makes this country great.


How did she keep getting re-elected then? You blame her for the 79-81 recession but that was a world-wide event. Same for the 2008 crash. You blame her and everyone here blames Bush. The "manufacturing world leader" that Britain claimed to be was a facade. Do you honestly believe the industry would be a competitive world leader had Maggie bowed to the unions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Will
She aimed to be the moral equivalent of military trauma, shaking her nation into vigor through rigor. As stable societies mature, they resemble long-simmering stews — viscous and lumpy with organizations resistant to change and hence inimical to dynamism. Her program was sound money, laissez faire, social fluidity and upward mobility through self-reliance and other “vigorous virtues.” She is the only prime minister whose name came to denote a doctrine — Thatcherism. (“Churchillian” denotes not a political philosophy but a leadership style.) When she left office in 1990, the trade unions had been tamed by democratizing them, the political argument was about how to achieve economic growth rather than redistribute wealth, and individualism and nationalism were revitalized.

And the Labor Party, shellacked three times, was ready for a post-socialist leader. Tony Blair was part of Thatcher’s legacy.

Time was, Labor considered itself the party of ideas and Tories preferred balancing interests to implementing political philosophy. But by the 1970s, Labor was a creature of a single interest group, the unions, and the Tories, who made Thatcher their leader in 1975, were becoming, as America’s Republicans were becoming, a party of ideas.

Britain has periodically been a laboratory for economic ideas — those of Adam Smith, John Maynard Keynes, the socialism of postwar Labor. Before the ascendancy of Thatcher — a disciple of Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek — Tories tried to immunize Britain against socialism by administering prophylactic doses of the disease. But by 1979, Britain’s fundamental political arrangements were at issue: Such was the extortionate power of the unions to paralyze the nation that the writ of Parliament often seemed to run not beyond a few acres along the Thames.

In 1979, she won the most lopsided election since 1945, when there had not been an election for 10 years. In 1983, she became the first Tory since 1924 to win two consecutive elections. In 1987, she won a third. Her 12 consecutive years were an achievement without precedent since the 1832 Reform Act moved Britain, gingerly, toward mass democracy. The most consequential peacetime prime minister since Disraeli, by 1990 she had become the first prime minister to govern through an entire decade since the Earl of Liverpool from 1812 to 1827.

In Britain and America in the 1960s and 1970s, government’s hubris expanded as its competence shrank. Like her soul mate, Ronald Reagan, Thatcher practiced the politics of psychotherapy, giving her nation a pride transplant. Reagan was responding to 17 lacerating years — Dallas, Vietnam, Watergate, stagflation, the Iranian hostage crisis. She was sick and tired of three decades of Britain being described as the Ottoman Empire once was, as “the sick man of Europe.” She set about disrupting settled attitudes and arrangements by enlarging and energizing the middle class, the great engine of social change in every modern society.

Before Thatcher, Britain’s economic problems often were ascribed to national character and hence were thought immune to remediation. Thatcher thought national character was part of the problem, but that national character is malleable, given bracing economic medicine. Marx’s ghost, hovering over his grave in London’s Highgate Cemetery, must have marveled at this Tory variant of economic determinism.

When Nature was serving up charm and convictions, Thatcher took a double serving of the latter, leaving little room on her plate for the former. But by what has been called her “matriarchal machismo” she usefully demonstrated that a soothing personality is not always necessary in democracy.

Like de Gaulle, she was a charismatic conservative nationalist who was properly resistant to what she called the European federalists’ attempts to “suppress nationhood and concentrate power at the center of a European conglomerate.” She left the British this ongoing challenge: “We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain only to see them reimposed at a European level.” As long as her brave heart beat, she knew there are no final victories.


*waits for all the leftist elite in here to start bashing George Will*
rufuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:33 PM   #68
Rasheed1
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Rasheed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 10,543
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

didnt she support the apartheid in South Africa?

I wont celebrate her death, but I won't mourn her because it doesnt seem to be much of a loss

edit:

Quote:
She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist".

yep.. just as I remembered...

She is alot like Reagan with the way certain people worship him & try to revise history even though he did some pretty heinous things as president.

Last edited by Rasheed1 : 04-10-2013 at 01:36 PM.
Rasheed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:53 PM   #69
rufuspaul
Kubla Kemba
 
rufuspaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 20,299
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
didnt she support the apartheid in South Africa?

I wont celebrate her death, but I won't mourn her because it doesnt seem to be much of a loss

edit:



yep.. just as I remembered...

She is alot like Reagan with the way certain people worship him & try to revise history even though he did some pretty heinous things as president.


Reagan and Thatcher didn't support divestment in companies doing business in South Africa as a way to combat apartheid. The left seized on this as de facto support for apartheid. Turns out both were wrong.
rufuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 01:57 PM   #70
KevinNYC
RunThroughTheShots
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,208
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by FPJ
WOW

Ive never seen anyone getting so much heat after passing away. In Liverpool they are giving free pints in bars, in Scotland and Ireland it looks like they just won the WORLD Cup. Argentina is celebrating too.

Funniest thing is that they wanted to give her a State funeral after all she did.

Fun fact: When she made that poll tax, the police later refused to arrest people cause 1 out of 3 people refused to pay it. A lot of people had it rough cause of her.

Doesn't surprise me. I hadn't thought of this Elvis Costello song in probably 20 years, but it came back to me immediately. They are going to have to guard that grave. As vicious a song as I've ever heard.
Quote:
Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, Im trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
Long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
Ill stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4-zDem1Sk
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:08 PM   #71
Rasheed1
3-time NBA All-Star
 
Rasheed1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 10,543
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Reagan and Thatcher didn't support divestment in companies doing business in South Africa as a way to combat apartheid. The left seized on this as de facto support for apartheid. Turns out both were wrong.

it is support for Apartheid...


How do we generally show opposition to countries like Iran or Iraq?

we discourage people from doing any business with them and basically try to cripple them economically..

maybe they paid political lip service to denouncing it (maybe you produce proof of this because I havent seen it), but that doesnt fool anyone except those who want to be fooled..

even though I dont think calling Nelson Mandela a "grubby terrorist" is even giving off the pretense of being against Apartheid..

IMO she was a foul woman who gets idolized for her charisma at the expense of all the ugly things she did... She is alot like Ronald Reagan
Rasheed1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:11 PM   #72
rufuspaul
Kubla Kemba
 
rufuspaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 20,299
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
it is support for Apartheid...


How do we generally show opposition to countries like Iran or Iraq?

we discourage people from doing any business with them and basically try to cripple them economically..

maybe they paid political lip service to denouncing it, but that doesnt fool anyone except those who want to be fooled..

even though I dont think calling Nelson Mandela a "grubby terrorist" is even giving off the pretense of being against Apartheid..

IMO she was a foul woman who gets idolized for her charisma at the expense of all the ugly things she did... She is alot like Ronald Reagan


Oh yeah they were on the wrong side of history on that one. The congress actually overturned Reagan's veto on divestment (no small feat considering it takes a 2/3 majority vote). That angle just didn't jibe with their (Reagan's and Thatcher's) free market beliefs, and if there's one quality they both had it was sticking to their core beliefs no matter what public opinion at the time might be.
rufuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:12 PM   #73
KevinNYC
RunThroughTheShots
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,208
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Reagan and Thatcher didn't support divestment in companies doing business in South Africa as a way to combat apartheid. The left seized on this as de facto support for apartheid. Turns out both were wrong.

How was it not de facto support for apartheid? Their attempts to shield South Africa from international reproach allowed apartheid to continue for longer than would have occurred if had gotten on the right side.

Also Thatcher and Reagan overtly supported South Africa did they not? Reagan blocked UN sanctions against South Africa
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:17 PM   #74
KevinNYC
RunThroughTheShots
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,208
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
Oh yeah they were on the wrong side of history on that one. The congress actually overturned Reagan's veto on divestment (no small feat considering it takes a 2/3 majority vote). That angle just didn't jibe with their (Reagan's and Thatcher's) free market beliefs, and if there's one quality they both had it was sticking to their core beliefs no matter what public opinion at the time might be.

It had nothing to do with the free market. They saw South Africa as anti-communist and as, such, were willing to overlook other crimes.

See Pinochet.
See Mobutu Sese Seko
et al
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 02:48 PM   #75
rufuspaul
Kubla Kemba
 
rufuspaul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 20,299
Default Re: Margaret Thatcher RIP

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
It had nothing to do with the free market. They saw South Africa as anti-communist and as, such, were willing to overlook other crimes.

See Pinochet.
See Mobutu Sese Seko
et al


Support for free markets would imply also being anti-communist don't you think?
rufuspaul is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:23 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy