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Old 04-26-2013, 02:43 AM   #16
MMM
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
I don't know much about him but I wouldn't be surprised if Alex Jones was just profiteering off of the gullibility of his listenership. If not Alex Jones then Glenn Beck surely is.

Agreed, seems like there is a lot of $$$ to be made. i find it interesting how Beck went from being a political mouth pieces to being far more religious now
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Old 04-26-2013, 02:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

I don't believe in every conspiracy theory because it'll be dumb to do so. But I do believe in the government lying and covering shit up, because well….

THEY'VE DONE IT

I do believe that there's people with the power to influence and even control decisions made by governments, financial institutions, media, etc.etc. for their gain. Because well….

IT'S BEEN DOCUMENTED

I do admit, my first instinct is always a cynical one as I've grown to distrust just about anything that we're fed. That's because once again, the government and the media have lied repeatedly, have covered up on purpose, have misled so casually that its the norm.

I may be wrong from time to time, nobody is perfect. But I'd rather be wrong in being cynical and asking questions then believing everything that I'm being told.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:11 AM   #18
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

The irony in this thread is overwhelming.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

People believe in conspiracy theories because they want to find an excuse for horrible things. They just can't accept that some wackos are capable of killing several innocent people (9/11, Boston marathon) and that you (or someone you love) might easily have been one of those killed.

Example: Muslim foreign terrorists took down the WTC? That can't be right. We are America, no one can harm us like that. It must have been our own government.

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Old 04-26-2013, 10:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers_forever
People believe in conspiracy theories because they want to find an excuse for horrible things. They just can't accept that some wackos are capable of killing several innocent people (9/11, Boston marathon) and that you (or someone you love) might easily have been one of those killed.

Example: Muslim foreign terrorists took down the WTC? That can't be right. We are America, no one can harm us like that. It must have been our own government.

Or maybe there's several contradictions in the story which makes some people skeptical? Or maybe there's the fact that the US has funded Al Queda in the past or maybe the fact that there was a bill on the president's office before the attack for the invasion of A-stan?

For me I'm just skeptical.. The government and people in charge have their own political power agendas and there's no easier way to win public support by staging a tragic event..
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:01 AM   #21
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andgar923
I don't believe in every conspiracy theory because it'll be dumb to do so. But I do believe in the government lying and covering shit up, because well….

THEY'VE DONE IT

I do believe that there's people with the power to influence and even control decisions made by governments, financial institutions, media, etc.etc. for their gain. Because well….

IT'S BEEN DOCUMENTED

I do admit, my first instinct is always a cynical one as I've grown to distrust just about anything that we're fed. That's because once again, the government and the media have lied repeatedly, have covered up on purpose, have misled so casually that its the norm.

I may be wrong from time to time, nobody is perfect. But I'd rather be wrong in being cynical and asking questions then believing everything that I'm being told.

This. I don't believe that every conspiracy is related to the government but with their track record I don't see how people can blindly believe the government does no wrong. It's just as bad as the conspiracy theorists in my opinion.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:27 AM   #22
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

I'm not going to dismiss altogether the possibility of a conspiracy being used in some instances, but I can't side with the InfoWars/Alex Jones worshippers who believe the government has some "manifesto" of enslaving its populace that its trying to unfold by systematically stripping civil liberties through a chain of events. The U.S. Government isn't static and changes faces on a regular enough basis that I doubt any leader in its hierarchy is thinking about solidifying "ultimate power" that will continue when they're out of their position, a process that takes quite a bit of time. Most of them will be dead anyway by the time the goal's reached.



bagelred, I wanted to continue our discussion from that other thread, you loon. Respond to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred
People are sheep. They will willingly give up all their rights for the illusion of safety.

Can you imagine if there were multiple attacks across multiple cities? Holy Jesus, the whole country would be begging for martial law.....

One teenager and the entire country went batshit crazy.

Guess America is a bunch of fearful Pusssies.....

Here's an article I like on the subject:

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/...a_the_skittish


Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
He was seen talking on a phone at the Boston Marathon. At the point of the manhunt, they couldn't definitively conclude it was just "one teenager". He was armed with multiple explosives, so how were they to know there was no supplier who possibly had equipped other accomplices in a makeshift militia? Who's to say he didn't have other types of devastating weaponry at his disposal he could have run to? He snaked his way out of a shootout for crying out loud.

You're not using your head to analyze the entire situation. You just have a quick-trigger desire to call out the public for being "pusssies" and "sheep". The martial law was 100% an appropriate response to the situation.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #23
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
I don't think it has to do with hatred of the government, as much as fear of its perceived power or insecurity over ones own lack of power. By being a conspiracy theorist you get to believe you are lifting the veil and gaining some measure of power (by way of knowledge) over the government. People that are lost and feel powerless are suddenly important and perceptive. They are no longer followers and they no longer need to find self worth in mainstream society.

This is the real reason. Conspiracy theories allow average people to believe they are smarter, more clever, more aware of things than the rest of the "sheep".
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #24
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
maybe there's the fact that the US has funded Al Queda in the past

The US did not fund Al Qaeda.

The US funded Afghan mujahadeen though Pakistan's ISI. They were working with Afghan groups, not Arabs. The Arab groups were small fries. The Afghans were doing the actual fighting. Saudi Arabia also matched the US's contributions and tons of other money flowed in to other mujahadeen groups in Pakistan at that time. However, once the Russians left, we basically walked away. We didn't stay for the civil war between the various Afghan militias that followed the Russians leaving and the fall of the Communist government a few years later. Al Qaeda was barely even on the map at this time. It was only years later that the US intelligence agencies pieced together how and when Al Qaeda was formed. Bin Laden was not thought to be that dangerous when he popped up on the CIA's radar. Even after the first WTC bombing in 1993, he wasn't considered to be a major player. They thought he was a rich kid the tough guys could go to and ask for money. They never thought that the he was the leader of the tough guys and they swore an oath of allegiance to him.

Al Qaeda, the terrorist organization, was formed in late 88/early 89 which is the same time that the Soviets were negotiating ceasefires to pull out their troops. Al Qaeda evolved from an earlier group set up to support the Afghans, that existed since at least 1984. Looking at it this way, it seems Al Qaeda was formed in answer to the question what are we going to do when this war is over?

Among the Afghans we worked with, there were three main ones by the end of the war. The US worked directed with Ahmed Shah Massoud's group in Afghanistan and we worked with this group again when we went back to into Afghanistan in 2001. Massoud was the guy Al Qaeda killed on September 9, 2011 because they feared him as a leader. Other anti-Soviet groups we worked with were Jalaluddin Haqqani's group and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's group. However, we didn't work with them directly, we gave money and weapons to Pakistan who then gave it to them. In fact, we ended up fighting both of these groups when we went back in after 2001.

All of these guys ended up fighting each other in the Civil War of the 1990's. Massoud and Hekmatyar had been enemies since college, when they both led rival political factions and Hekmatyar tried to assasinate Massoud. Hekmatyar was part of the Post Soviet government in Afghanistand while Haqqani ended up with the Taliban and then ended up fighting each other when the Taliban took over. Hekmatyar and Haqqani can both be described as radical Islamists, but they weren't Al Qaeda. They are Afghans and they were mostly interested in the local Afghan politics and they were not involved in attacking the US around the world and in NYC and DC. Al Qaeda is a group of Arabs started by a merger of Egyptian and Saudi groups who is involved in attack the US and its allies around the world.

If you want to say the US never should have funded anti-Soviet mujahadeen and without that funding the concept of world-wide jihad wouldn't be what it is today, that's a different argument. But to say the used funded Al Qaeda is just false. Another difference between the Arabs and the Afghans is the Arabs pretty much had their own funding, while the Afghans did not. (The Arabs in Afghanistan were much, much smaller an insginficant to the fighting.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
or maybe the fact that there was a bill on the president's office before the attack for the invasion of A-stan?

What are you talking about here?

I think you may be confusing this with the plans to invade Iraq. Iraq was on the minds of the President and his people in 2001. It was discussed at the first meeting of Bush National Security Council, I believe. It was this focus on Iraq that led them to downplay the threat from Al Qaeda and the possibility of an attack like 9/11.

Also bills originate in Congress. Perhaps you meant plan. The actual planning for the invasion of Iraq, as opposed to just the idea itself started in November 2001 when Rumsfeld asked Tommy Franks to come up with a plan to take out Saddam.

The crowd around Bush was eager for Iraq not Afghanistan. They started raising the possibility of invading both on September 12, 2001. Supposedly Colin Powell talked Bush out of this. One of the reasons Bin Laden was able to escape was that Rumsfeld never wanted to send that many troops into Afghanistan. He wanted to save them for Iraq. We had such a light footprint in Iraq that we had to outsource the control of the border to Afghan groups. It's believed one of this groups, Jalaluddin Haqqani's, (remember him) let Bin Laden escape into Pakistan.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
The U.S. Government isn't static and changes faces on a regular enough basis

This is true. It's also true that the US Government is not monolithic and doesn't work in lockstep either. You always have folks like the FBI guys who didn't like Clinton and were willing to leak to the press or the CIA guys who didn't like Rumsfeld or Cheney and were willing to leak to the press. You also have groups and individuals competing for influence within the government. If you look at the Bush cabinet. They were rivalries between Colin Powell on one side and Rumsfeld/Cheney on the other. Condoleeza Rice tended to move from side to side. Bush's second term was much different from his first. Rumsfeld was finally kicked out and Rice sought to cut back on Cheney's influence.


Also for the Infowars type of conspiracies to work, you have the entire press has to be in on it as well.

Last edited by KevinNYC : 04-26-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

It's also naive to believe that the government and intelligence aren't influenced (some may even say controlled) by others.

Some know these as 'think tanks' or 'donors' nobody can deny that they have a huge influence in our policies and media. The conspiracy theorists (at times myself included to a degree) believe there's other groups that wield more power, such as the Bilderberg Group or other elitist groups masquerading as something else. Yet decisions that affect our lives are made by these elite group of people.

Now, I don't believe that they're luciferian entities with the purpose of killing us all to feed their reptilian appetite. What i do believe is simple….

Rich and powerful people, want to stay rich and powerful.
Rich and powerful people, want to get richer and more powerfuller.

Human nature really

Another thing….

These elitists don't see us on their level. To many of them we're disposable and they could care less of what happens to any of us. Watching us die and suffer is of no care to them, just as most of us don't truly care about the lives and conditions a homeless man in the alley. Honestly, do most of us truly care about them? we may feel sorry for a homeless Vietnamese person, but we don't truly spend giving a rats ass of our lives. We will continue to eat out, spend our money on stuff, talk trash online, complain about our 1st world problems but we honestly don't care about them.

Just like they don't care about us.

A war to them is another chance to profit, nothing more nothing less. Almost in the same way that a gang shootout or a drug deal murder doesn't affect your lives whatsoever.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #27
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

America has a long history of conspiracy theories. In fact its creation was based on one.


The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution, a book by distinguished historian and Professor Bernard Bailyn of Harvard University who won the Bancroft Prize in American History, says the unifying feature of the entire generation that waged the revolution was the notion of a British conspiracy to enslave the colonies.

Quote:
"the conviction on the part of the Revolutionary leaders that they were faced with a deliberate conspiracy to destroy the balance of the constitution and eliminate their freedom had deep and widespread roots -- roots deeply embedded in Anglo-American political culture .... The configuration of attitudes and ideas that would constitute the Revolutionary ideology was present a half-century before there was an actual Revolution ... and among the dominant elements in this pattern were the fear of corruption -- of its anti-constitutional destructiveness -- and of the menace of a ministerial conspiracy. At the very first signs of conflict between the colonies and the administration in the early 1760s the question of motivation was openly broached and the imputation of secret purposes discussed ... The conviction that the colonies, and England itself, were faced with a deliberate, anti-libertarian design grew most quickly where the polarization of politics was most extreme .... But in some degree it was present everywhere; it was almost universally shared by sympathizers of the American cause ... The explosion of long-smoldering fears of ministerial conspiracy was by no means an exclusively American phenomenon. It was experienced in England too "

George Washington stated the existence of a "regular, systematic plan" to which the British government was...

Quote:
"endeavoring by every piece of art and despotism to fix the shackles of slavery upon us."

Quote:
"beyond the smallest doubt ... these measures are the result of deliberation ... I am as fully convinced as I am of my own existence that there has been a regular, systematic plan formed to enforce them."

Thomas Jefferson had similar views.

Quote:
"single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day ... a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate and systematical plan of reducing us to slavery."

John Adams believed that...

Quote:
"the conspiracy was first regularly formed and begun to be executed in 1763 or 4."

Proponents of this conspiracy were exchanging letters which were...

Quote:
"profoundly secret, dark, and deep"

and apart of a...

Quote:
''junto conspiracy"

The Boston Committee of Correspondence, an important pre-revolutionary institution, thanked God who had...

Quote:
"wonderfully interposed to bring to light the plot that has been laid for us by our malicious and invidious enemies."


Conspiracy theories are about as American and apart of our tradition as baseball, so instead of going on a neo-mccarthyite witch hunt against conspiracy theorists, people should learn to embrace our heritage and the culture from which we came.

That said, yes Alex Jones is a douche-bag disinformation agent who is probably apart of some conspiracy to confuse everyone. Lol.



References
The Ideological Origins of the American Revolution, Bernard Bailyn
9/11 Synthetic Terror: Made in USA, Webster Griffin Tarpley

Last edited by Norcaliblunt : 04-26-2013 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

The same reason people believe in religion: they're dumb.

No conspiracy theory I've ever read even made sense. 9/11? Lol...ok. They're a made up by tards who don't trust the govt and believe they're out to get everyone.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

And for the record, the Skull and Bones and Freemasons are REAL. Along with the Bavarain Illuminati which was actually needed. Perhaps society wouldn't have evolved if it wasn't for the Illuminati, since that group's origins was created to keep its members and their ideology secret from oppressive religious governments. Some of the most influential people in history were members of an Illuminati sector. Illuminati actually means to 'illuminate' as in illuminate one's mind, one's knowledge/awareness. It was composed of scientists, mathematicians, economists, aristocrats, alchemists, philosophers, artists, musicians, literates, astronomers, etc.etc. It was important for them to meet in privacy and intact secret codes to communicate with one another, or they'd be punished for being devil worshippers. They were free thinkers that didn't want to meet the same fate the Knights Templar met.

Naturally, as things evolve ideology changes.

The Illuminati technically doesn't exist anymore. But some of the other branches associated with them still do. Besides, if they still did exist we probably wouldn't know about them by that name.

And as societies evolve, they had to adapt to maintain their secrecy and some will say 'control'.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why folks believe in conspiracy theories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
I don't think it has to do with hatred of the government, as much as fear of its perceived power or insecurity over ones own lack of power. By being a conspiracy theorist you get to believe you are lifting the veil and gaining some measure of power (by way of knowledge) over the government. People that are lost and feel powerless are suddenly important and perceptive. They are no longer followers and they no longer need to find self worth in mainstream society.

Exactly this.
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