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Old 04-27-2013, 04:00 PM   #1
TheGreatBlaze
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Default A basic argument for the existence of God

Since it is agreed upon by virtually all modern scientists, including Stephen Hawking, that matter, time and space began to exist at the Big Bang, that means that it is finite. And you since you can't have an infinite amount of finite things then that is pretty much proof in of itself. Take the closest object to you and multiply it. How many times would it take to multiply it to infinity? And how long is an infinite interval of time? What is space but the measure of matter, and if there were no matter then there would be a vacuum? It logically follows that if matter, time and space are finite then there must be something that transcends matter/time/space, which would then have the properties of God, being immaterial/eternal/omnipresent and infinite. And since God is not bound by spacial restrictions and time I would assume that matter would differently to him as well to levels that we cannot comprehend or grasp, being seen outside the context of space and time. Think about it, if you're omnipresent then a grain of salt and a galaxy are going to look the same to you, and you would know the beginning from the end. For lack of a better term, I believe God exists in a 'higher dimension' that we cannot perceive.

The Bible has so many thousands of prophecies that are still coming true, especially now, and it is the most attested to set of historical documents in all of ancient history by a landslide, more than the next 10 combined.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Multiverse?
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

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Originally Posted by fiddy
Multiverse?
That only adds to the original question puts it on a higher and more difficult plane IMO. We can get into other stuff as well though, like how it couldn't have happened by chance or own its own.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

The fact that it is agreed upon by modern scientists means nothing. These accepted "truths" are subject to change.

And, I find it curious that so many religious people try to make arguments about God's existence. The more you reduce it to a scientific matter of analyzing evidence to reach the conclusion of his existence, the less you make it about faith and more about deductive reasoning to believe he's there.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

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Originally Posted by HardwoodLegend
The fact that it is agreed upon by modern scientists means nothing. These accepted "truths" are subject to change.

And, I find it curious that so many religious people try to make arguments about God's existence. The more you reduce it to a scientific matter of analyzing evidence to reach the conclusion of his existence, the less you make it about faith and more about deductive reasoning to believe he's there.
There is actually much truth to what you said in that second part my friend, the Bible itself said we are to believe and trust in God by faith, and if we had concrete proof there would be no such thing as faith, free will or true love. I believe an argument of this kind is about as close as you can get to 'proving' God, the rest it taken on faith and IMO logic and reason.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

the universe is constantly expanding. how is that finite?

and lol @ at the biblical prophecies thing
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

i re read this again and your entire "argument" makes no sense man lmao
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quizno
the universe is constantly expanding. how is that finite?

and lol @ at the biblical prophecies thing
I don't think you understood the basic premise of my argument. The universe began to exist, therefore there is something that transcends it. It's kind of like the Kalam cosmological argument but more expanded upon imo.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
I don't think you understood the basic premise of my argument. The universe began to exist, therefore there is something that transcends it. It's kind of like the Kalam cosmological argument but more expanded upon imo.
yeah, we don't know how exactly the universe started or what started it. but that doesn't mean there's an omniscient omnipotent being that watches over us. and it definitely doesn't provide any evidence of the christian god
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quizno
yeah, we don't know how exactly the universe started or what started it. but that doesn't mean there's an omniscient omnipotent being that watches over us. and it definitely doesn't provide any evidence of the christian god
You're just dancing around the argument, can you actually rebut me?
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

No it's not agreed upon by "virtually all scientists."
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Since it is agreed upon by virtually all modern scientists, including Stephen Hawking, that matter, time and space began to exist at the Big Bang, that means that it is finite. And you since you can't have an infinite amount of finite things then that is pretty much proof in of itself. Take the closest object to you and multiply it. How many times would it take to multiply it to infinity? And how long is an infinite interval of time? What is space but the measure of matter, and if there were no matter then there would be a vacuum? It logically follows that if matter, time and space are finite then there must be something that transcends matter/time/space, which would then have the properties of God, being immaterial/eternal/omnipresent and infinite. And since God is not bound by spacial restrictions and time I would assume that matter would differently to him as well to levels that we cannot comprehend or grasp, being seen outside the context of space and time. Think about it, if you're omnipresent then a grain of salt and a galaxy are going to look the same to you, and you would know the beginning from the end. For lack of a better term, I believe God exists in a 'higher dimension' that we cannot perceive.

The Bible has so many thousands of prophecies that are still coming true, especially now, and it is the most attested to set of historical documents in all of ancient history by a landslide, more than the next 10 combined.

Well, matter existed before the big bang, it was just crushed into an area smaller
than any subatomic particle. Maybe what you meant to say was matter as we know it, or matter that was the least not noticeable.

Also, why do you believe it confirms the existence of Yahweh as opposed to say, any other religious deity? Surely followers of other religions can point to claimed fulfilled prophecies from their own religious scripture as evidence that they are following the correct God as opposed to any other.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
No it's not agreed upon by "virtually all scientists."
So you disagree with Hawking and modern science?
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
So you disagree with Hawkings and modern science?
No, the data is consistent with BOTH finite and infinite space models.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

God does exist. The debate is whether God is an idea or an undefined, omnipotent being.
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