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Old 04-27-2013, 04:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingman
Well, matter existed before the big bang, it was just crushed into an area smaller
than any subatomic particle. Maybe what you meant to say was matter as we know it, or matter that was the least not noticeable.

Also, why do you believe it confirms the existence of Yahweh as opposed to say, any other religious deity? Surely followers of other religions can point to claimed fulfilled prophecies from their own religious scripture as evidence that they are following the correct God as opposed to any other.
Truthfully, everything we claim to know is based on faith. Were you there if/when the Big Bang happened? Has it ever been recreated? And I know the popular thing to say nowadays is that everything came from nothing, as silly as it sounds, but it's literally what people have been backed into.

And if you claim there are fulfilled prophecies like the Bible then please present your scriptures. Surely not the Qur'an, Book of Mormon, Bhagavad Gita etc. because they present no such prophecies.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

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Originally Posted by shlver
No, the data is consistent with BOTH finite and infinite space models.
Care to elaborate?
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

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Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Care to elaborate?
The current accepted and consistent model is the lambda cdm model. It is an infinite space model. There are finite space models that are consistent with the data as well.
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
The current accepted and consistent model is the lambda cdm model. It is an infinite space model. There are finite space models that are consistent with the data as well.
Can you prove that in any statistical way or is it just what you believe to be true?
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Truthfully, everything we claim to know is based on faith. Were you there if/when the Big Bang happened? Has it ever been recreated? And I know the popular thing to say nowadays is that everything came from nothing, as silly as it sounds, but it's literally what people have been backed into.

And if you claim there are fulfilled prophecies like the Bible then please present your scriptures. Surely not the Qur'an, Book of Mormon, Bhagavad Gita etc. because they present no such prophecies.

Islam: http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html

Mormonism: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophecies.shtml

Hinduism: http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/hindusa.htm

Just so you know, I don't believe any of these fulfilled prophecies confirm the existence of these religions' deities. Just pointing out that Christianity doesn't stand alone in the "fulfilled prophecies" department.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:04 PM   #21
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingman
Islam: http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html

Mormonism: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophecies.shtml

Hinduism: http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/hindusa.htm

Just so you know, I don't believe any of these fulfilled prophecies confirm the existence of these religions' deities. Just pointing out that Christianity doesn't stand alone in the "fulfilled prophecies" department.
Can anything there even come close to this small sample size?

http://www.reasons.org/articles/arti...y-of-the-bible

I own three Qur'an translations with the Arabic paralleled and Muslim sheikhs deceptively alter words and sentences to make them look more "scientific" and less violent.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:05 PM   #22
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Can you prove that statistically or is it just what you believe to be true?
???
Prove what statistically? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Go read the wiki page on the lambda CDM model. This is an infinite space model that is considered to be the standard model.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

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The Bible has so many thousands of prophecies that are still coming true, especially now

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Old 04-27-2013, 05:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Can anything there even come close to this small sample size?

http://www.reasons.org/articles/arti...y-of-the-bible

I own three Qur'an translations with the Arabic paralleled and Muslim sheikhs deceptively alter words and sentences to make them look more "scientific" and less violent.

Sure they do. And I'm sure that's a very widespread practice...
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:08 PM   #25
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
???
Prove what statistically? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Go read the wiki page on the lambda CDM model. This is an infinite space model that is considered to be the standard model.
lol at wiki? And how does this model refute my argument exactly? I was simply asking how you know that all modern scientists believe it.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
lol at wiki? And how does this model refute my argument exactly? I was simply asking how you know that all modern scientists believe it.
There is no preference to belief. There is only preference to possibility. Do you even know what these models are? They are mathematical descriptions that are consistent with repeated measurements. Why do they assume infinite space? Because that simplifies the model and reduces tedious very complex calculations. This assumption has no implications on whether the universe actually is infinite or finite. Any preference is personal.

Last edited by shlver : 04-27-2013 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

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Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
lol at wiki?

Can we stop acting like Wikipedia isn't a reliable source for information? Everything is even referenced at the bottom of the page.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by travelingman
Sure they do. And I'm sure that's a very widespread practice...

Unlike the Qur'an or any other religious text, Christians possess riches of ancient manuscript and extrabiblical evidences for the Biblical testimonies, including archaeological digs. 24,000+ manuscripts from all places, times and languages and we can compare them and put them under textual scrutiny.

The Bible was complied over roughly 1,600 years by 40 different authors in three different languages and on three different continents, most of its books written by book who did not know each other and were separated by hundreds of years. Yet you see perfect harmony. The reason people think the Bible is a joke is because it says in the Bible that in the later times people will scoff and fall into all kinds of worldly lusts and delusions. If you actually take time to study the Book, you will see it fits this world like a glove.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

The other day I was at Subway. Hot blonde in a short skirt dropped her chips and bent over right in front of me, could see it all. I thought to myself "there is a god"


Not really but the sandwich was OK
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: A basic argument for the existence of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by shlver
There is no preference to belief. There is only preference to possibility. Do you even know what these models are? They are mathematical descriptions that are consistent with repeated measurements. Why do they assume infinite space? Because that simplifies the model and reduces tedious very complex calculations. They have no implications on whether the universe actually is infinite or finite. Any preference is personal.

Wait so are you saying we have repeated measurements of infinite things? Most people believe the universe is 13.7 billion years old, so did 14 billion years ago not exist?
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