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Old 05-29-2008, 01:30 AM   #1
Blackeagle
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Default My overrated and underrated players thread

first, the overrated players:
DeAndre Jordan. I know that he has a prototypical body for a C. He COULD be very good. But it won't happen any time soon. If you have the patience for him to develop, he may be worth taking. If you have kareem ready to work with him day in and day out, he could become a force in 2-3 years like Bynum. Most teams don't have the patience and don't have the proper coaching staff to make him a good pick.

JaVale McGee. Everything I said about Jordan applies to McGee. He may be a little more ready to play right now, but not by much. The same massive upside, but serious doubts on him reaching it, especially in a timely fashion.

Derrick Rose. This one will turn some heads, and I fully expect him to be a good player. But, he needs to work on his game. He may very well be the single most athletic person on the planet, and he has great intangibles. I expect him to improve and eventually become one of the best PGs in the league - but there's no way he wins rookie of the year, and for a guy who seems to be the consensus #1 pick, I think that qualifies him as overrated.

Russell Westbrook. This one is a big one for me. The other guys that I say are overrated could very well become very good players. Rose especially, may be one of the best PGs in the league in a few years. But Westbrook? He's not a point guard. He just isn't, so stop trying to say that he is. He's a short shooting guard with no jumpshot. He's very athletic and plays very good defense, and that counts for something, but he'll never be a particularly good player.



Now, the underrated players:
Shan Foster. 6'6" shooting guard with serious range, averaged over 20 ppg as his team's primary scoring option, with tremendous shooting percentages. SEC player of the year. Moves extremely well off the ball, and plays good defense. Why is he not a first rounder again? I've been pimping him since november, at which point he made a brief appearance in the late first round of a lot of mocks, but seems to be totally forgotten these days. His only down side is that he's a senior. I'm sorry, but I'll take what I consider to be a sure-fire quality player now over someone with more unfulfilled 'potential.'

Lester Hudson. Very talented scorer from everywhere on the floor. Athletic, plays decent defense. Is used to taking and making big shots. Plays well under pressure. Two things hold him back. First, his size... he's definitely a combo guard tweener. He needs to go to the right situation, and will probably always be a bench player, but could develop into a very good 6th man, but with the right coaching staff, maybe he develops his PG skills. Secondly, he played at a small program. I'd point you to two guys in recent years: Kevin Martin and Rodney Stuckey. Both guys played for small conference teams, but were tremendous scorers, both have excelled in the NBA. Expect Hudson to do the same if put into a good position.

Jason Thompson. Another guy who gets less respect than he deserves, simply because of his conference. He's athletic, has good size, rebounds well, blocks shots well. He's a jump shooting big, which a lot of people don't like. He's not going to be a guy who you throw the ball to in the low post, and let him draw a double.. and that ability to draw the double in the post is one of the things that makes bigs so valuable. So in that respect, I understand how some people rate him. In the right situation though (like my timberwolves), he would be perfect, because the wolves already have a serious low post scoring threat that Thompson could play off of. If your team is looking for that post scoring threat to draw the doubles, Thompson is not for you, but he could excel as a role player in the right situation, alongside another big with a strong post game.


Please feel free to debate or post your own. Don't just make lists, explain your picks.

Last edited by Blackeagle : 05-29-2008 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:33 AM   #2
monthh
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

I agree with your picks for the most part, and you speak a lot of truth, but like most people I can't agree on Rose.

Overrated:
Anthony Randolph-I understand that he is not a Tyrus Thomas or Stro Swift clone, but I just have a hard time falling in love with his game. Every year we see these atheltic freaks that are 6-10 "combo"-forwards. To me these guys are tweeners, but no one likes that term anymore. This guy is 200lbs wet, but can't hit an open outside shot. And for a 6-10 guy that can't shoot from the outside, you would expect more than 46% shooting. He is super athletic which allowed him to get a lot of rebounds and blocks, but he is going to get pushed around defensively in the NBA. He will make plays on defense, but I don't think that makes someone a good defender.

Underrated:
Chris Douglas-Roberts-I understand he is skinny and might have trouble against stronger defenders, but this guys does everything on the court. He is 6-7 which gives him perfect size for an NBA SG, a solid defender, and is good with the ball despite his numbers at first glance. What I love about this guy is that he can get the ball in the basket in any situation. That is why I think he would be perfect next to LeBron. LeBron is a great player, obviously, but sometimes he gives up the ball late in the shot clock and a guy has to take a quick shot and sometimes he finds you when you have defenders around you and you are forced to take a tough shot. CDR can hit any of these shots and just finds a way to get the ball to go in. I don't think he will be able to take over games, which hurts his potential, but I think he is a starting SG in the NBA.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
first, the overrated players:
DeAndre Jordan. I know that he has a prototypical body for a C. He COULD be very good. But it won't happen any time soon. If you have the patience for him to develop, he may be worth taking. If you have kareem ready to work with him day in and day out, he could become a force in 2-3 years like Bynum. Most teams don't have the patience and don't have the proper coaching staff to make him a good pick.

JaVale McGee. Everything I said about Jordan applies to McGee. He may be a little more ready to play right now, but not by much. The same massive upside, but serious doubts on him reaching it, especially in a timely fashion.

Derrick Rose. This one will turn some heads, and I fully expect him to be a good player. But, he needs to work on his game. He may very well be the single most athletic person on the planet, and he has great intangibles. I expect him to improve and eventually become one of the best PGs in the league - but there's no way he wins rookie of the year, and for a guy who seems to be the consensus #1 pick, I think that qualifies him as overrated.

Russell Westbrook. This one is a big one for me. The other guys that I say are overrated could very well become very good players. Rose especially, may be one of the best PGs in the league in a few years. But Westbrook? He's not a point guard. He just isn't, so stop trying to say that he is. He's a short shooting guard with no jumpshot. He's very athletic and plays very good defense, and that counts for something, but he'll never be a particularly good player.



Now, the underrated players:
Shan Foster. 6'6" shooting guard with serious range, averaged over 20 ppg as his team's primary scoring option, with tremendous shooting percentages. SEC player of the year. Moves extremely well off the ball, and plays good defense. Why is he not a first rounder again? I've been pimping him since november, at which point he made a brief appearance in the late first round of a lot of mocks, but seems to be totally forgotten these days. His only down side is that he's a senior. I'm sorry, but I'll take what I consider to be a sure-fire quality player now over someone with more unfulfilled 'potential.'

Lester Hudson. Very talented scorer from everywhere on the floor. Athletic, plays decent defense. Is used to taking and making big shots. Plays well under pressure. Two things hold him back. First, his size... he's definitely a combo guard tweener. He needs to go to the right situation, and will probably always be a bench player, but could develop into a very good 6th man, but with the right coaching staff, maybe he develops his PG skills. Secondly, he played at a small program. I'd point you to two guys in recent years: Kevin Martin and Rodney Stuckey. Both guys played for small conference teams, but were tremendous scorers, both have excelled in the NBA. Expect Hudson to do the same if put into a good position.

Jason Thompson. Another guy who gets less respect than he deserves, simply because of his conference. He's athletic, has good size, rebounds well, blocks shots well. He's a jump shooting big, which a lot of people don't like. He's not going to be a guy who you throw the ball to in the low post, and let him draw a double.. and that ability to draw the double in the post is one of the things that makes bigs so valuable. So in that respect, I understand how some people rate him. In the right situation though (like my timberwolves), he would be perfect, because the wolves already have a serious low post scoring threat that Thompson could play off of. If your team is looking for that post scoring threat to draw the doubles, Thompson is not for you, but he could excel as a role player in the right situation, alongside another big with a strong post game.


Please feel free to debate or post your own. Don't just make lists, explain your picks.

Blackeagle, I think this was a well written post, and I'm sure you know you're basketball, so this isn't to say you're wrong and I'm right, I think it's just differing opinions. But I don't really agree with any of your choices, except Westbrook. Jordan is the best big man athlete in the draft and while he didn't contribute too much as a freshman in college, he is just about the only big man this year who has a chance to become a dominant NBA center. I hate to see too many players being drafted purely beased on potential, but in Jordan's case it's justified. And to be honest, comparing him to previous years' young center prospects, when was the last time we actually saw someone who's 19 years old and has a 7'0/260 athletic body doing even that much in college (Ok, I mean someone else than Oden)? He is really quick for his size, has natural aggressiveness, great hands (even though his skills aren't that developed), etc. If I was picking a center, I would consider taking him ahead of Brooke Lopez.

Hudson could be a steal, but small scoring point guards playing against weak opponents are always tricky. And Hudson is gonna be 24 this summer! Deciding if he's underrated or not depends on what mock draft you're looking at, but I think he's early second rounder in most mocks, and that's pretty much where should be.

I think Foster is a classic example of a good college scorer who won't have a chance in the next level. He isn't strong or quick and he doesn't have a good handle or court vision. I think he's nowhere near as versatile as NBA shooting guards have to be. He tries hard and was a good college defender, but he's not athletic enough to defend in the NBA. The one think he probably can do also in the NBA is shoot, but I don't think he has much of a chance to be more than a role player coming off the bench taking a few threes every now and then.

Last edited by disco : 05-29-2008 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...-Day-Two-2901/

Sounds like Foster isn't doing himself any favours at the camp:

Shan Foster was a big disappointment once again, continuing the same trend we saw in the morning and the day before. He looks completely out of his element mentally, forcing bad shots and even air-balling one 3-pointer by about five feet, which is completely uncharacteristic of the player widely considered the top shooter in this draft class. He got chased off the 3-point line way too easily, getting caught into the trap of being forced to use his ball-handling skills, which he is much less effective at than just spotting up from behind the arc. He looks like he’s putting way too much pressure on himself, and will need to settle down a bit and remember what got him here. He unfortunately doesn’t bring enough else to the table besides his shooting to be able to be as cold as he’s been thus far.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:12 PM   #5
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Kevin Love anywhere in the top 5 might be one of the worst draft picks of this decade.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Overrated List:
Devon Jefferson - An athletic freak, but I don't think he has the maturity or work ethic to become a good player

Danny Green- He just reminds me of another Joseph Forte, he can score in college. He doesn't seem have skills to separate from his defender.

Underrated List:
Ty Lawson - He is not a shooter, but He is a capable back up general a la Jacque Vaughn. He's quick, good court vision and manages the game well

J.R. Giddeons - This guy has range and tools to be a good defender. He's long and athletic with some character issues. He could be a good 2nd round pick, he reminds me of JR Smith.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

NICE pick on Shan Foster.

I think this guy is going to be GOOD, his shot is deadly.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Shan Foster's apparently looked horrible in the Orlando camp.

I like Richard Roby a lot, I'd like him a lot in the mid 2nd round.
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Old 05-29-2008, 02:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
Shan Foster's apparently looked horrible in the Orlando camp.

I like Richard Roby a lot, I'd like him a lot in the mid 2nd round.
he'll be fine.he just needs to settle in and shoot himself out of it. ray allen has been struggling MIGHTILy and what happens? 5 3pointers last night. his shot will come. 47% from 3 and 3rd in ncaa in 3pointers was no fluke

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qUQyS6M2DAA

he almost has that peja slingshot release
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

I take 4 years of fantastic shooting at vandy as a better indication of his shooting ability than a poor performance on the first day or two of a pre-draft camp. He'll be fine.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
I take 4 years of fantastic shooting at vandy as a better indication of his shooting ability than a poor performance on the first day or two of a pre-draft camp. He'll be fine.

I know some others commented about Foster too, but in my post I didn't say anything about his shooting (or just that he's a good shooter):

I think Foster is a classic example of a good college scorer who won't have a chance in the next level. He isn't strong or quick and he doesn't have a good handle or court vision. I think he's nowhere near as versatile as NBA shooting guards have to be. He tries hard and was a good college defender, but he's not athletic enough to defend in the NBA. The one think he probably can do also in the NBA is shoot, but I don't think he has much of a chance to be more than a role player coming off the bench taking a few threes every now and then.
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Old 05-29-2008, 05:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

I see him as a better kapono or korver. He moves much better off the ball than either of them, and has the size, quick release, and shooting ability that they have. He also isn't particularly athletic, but more athletic and better defensively than those guys. Foster scored more and on better percentages than those guys did in college.

Korver was a key part of utah this season, and kapono has made a lot of big shots in his career. I expect shan to be a valuable part of whichever team drafts him, though he certainly will never be a star
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Old 05-30-2008, 03:38 PM   #13
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Exclamation Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Darnell Harris UNDERRATED IF RATED AT ALL!! Won NCAA 3 point Contest was invited on a last minute as a fill in should have been invited to begin with. A-10 3pm Leader. Made alot of history this year. Haven't seen this guy on anyones mocks. Leaves me wondering if anybody knows ball these days.. Underrated by the average joe but the pro's know. Waiting until June.
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

You defenitly need Joe Alexander at the under-rated list.

Plus for underated list, im gonna havr to put Dougla-sRoberts there too
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: My overrated and underrated players thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackeagle
first, the overrated players:
DeAndre Jordan. I know that he has a prototypical body for a C. He COULD be very good. But it won't happen any time soon. If you have the patience for him to develop, he may be worth taking. If you have kareem ready to work with him day in and day out, he could become a force in 2-3 years like Bynum. Most teams don't have the patience and don't have the proper coaching staff to make him a good pick.

JaVale McGee. Everything I said about Jordan applies to McGee. He may be a little more ready to play right now, but not by much. The same massive upside, but serious doubts on him reaching it, especially in a timely fashion.

Derrick Rose. This one will turn some heads, and I fully expect him to be a good player. But, he needs to work on his game. He may very well be the single most athletic person on the planet, and he has great intangibles. I expect him to improve and eventually become one of the best PGs in the league - but there's no way he wins rookie of the year, and for a guy who seems to be the consensus #1 pick, I think that qualifies him as overrated.

Russell Westbrook. This one is a big one for me. The other guys that I say are overrated could very well become very good players. Rose especially, may be one of the best PGs in the league in a few years. But Westbrook? He's not a point guard. He just isn't, so stop trying to say that he is. He's a short shooting guard with no jumpshot. He's very athletic and plays very good defense, and that counts for something, but he'll never be a particularly good player.



Now, the underrated players:
Shan Foster. 6'6" shooting guard with serious range, averaged over 20 ppg as his team's primary scoring option, with tremendous shooting percentages. SEC player of the year. Moves extremely well off the ball, and plays good defense. Why is he not a first rounder again? I've been pimping him since november, at which point he made a brief appearance in the late first round of a lot of mocks, but seems to be totally forgotten these days. His only down side is that he's a senior. I'm sorry, but I'll take what I consider to be a sure-fire quality player now over someone with more unfulfilled 'potential.'

Lester Hudson. Very talented scorer from everywhere on the floor. Athletic, plays decent defense. Is used to taking and making big shots. Plays well under pressure. Two things hold him back. First, his size... he's definitely a combo guard tweener. He needs to go to the right situation, and will probably always be a bench player, but could develop into a very good 6th man, but with the right coaching staff, maybe he develops his PG skills. Secondly, he played at a small program. I'd point you to two guys in recent years: Kevin Martin and Rodney Stuckey. Both guys played for small conference teams, but were tremendous scorers, both have excelled in the NBA. Expect Hudson to do the same if put into a good position.

Jason Thompson. Another guy who gets less respect than he deserves, simply because of his conference. He's athletic, has good size, rebounds well, blocks shots well. He's a jump shooting big, which a lot of people don't like. He's not going to be a guy who you throw the ball to in the low post, and let him draw a double.. and that ability to draw the double in the post is one of the things that makes bigs so valuable. So in that respect, I understand how some people rate him. In the right situation though (like my timberwolves), he would be perfect, because the wolves already have a serious low post scoring threat that Thompson could play off of. If your team is looking for that post scoring threat to draw the doubles, Thompson is not for you, but he could excel as a role player in the right situation, alongside another big with a strong post game.


Please feel free to debate or post your own. Don't just make lists, explain your picks.
Well done. All the players you overrated have succeeded and one of them won MVP, while those underrated players you said are all unknown except for Thompson who is still pretty shitty
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