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Old 05-06-2013, 12:39 AM   #1
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Or call it overlooked, or whatever you want.

Posted some of this in that other topic already

> 7 times top2 in MVP award shares, 9x top5
> All-NBA 1st team every year he was healthy
> 1st in WS/48 2 times, top3 6 times
> Led the league in PER 2 times, top3 6 times
> 1st in DWS 4 times, 2nd other 2x
> 2nd in DRtg in 1984, 6x in the top10 (with also that above really underrated D)
> Top5 in the league in points and ppg 4 times
> Top10 in the league in rebounds and rpg 7 times
> Top10 in the league in steals 3 times
> Top5 in 3Ps made in the league 5 times
> Top10 in the league in 3P% 7 times
> Led the league in FT% 4 times
> Only player in the top10 in 4 of the 5 statistical categories in the Playoffs (points, rebounds, assists and steals)
> In his 1st year, got the Celtics from 2nd worst record to the best record and the ECF with the same team, led them to the championship the following year with the only main addition in Parish but with also Cowens gone
> In his prime during 5 seasons averaged 27/10/7 on 51/40/90 in the regular season, and 26/10/7 on 49/37/90 in the post-season, even dealing with injuries, and got them to the Finals 4 times and the ECF 5 times during those years
> 6.3 apg for his career without ever being the main ball-handler or that close, or also ball dominant like most other superstars at that level
> Celtics had 15 less wins in 1989 with him not playing, basically the same team with everyone playing relatively the same and the addition of Reggie Lewis playing really well, they also got swept in the 1st round, previous year with Bird got to the ECF and took the Pistons to 6... Pretty similar situation with MJ and the Bulls in 1995, Bulls only had 2 less wins and went deep into the playoffs
> Severely injured his finger just before getting into the NBA, somewhat had to relearn to shoot with a really crooked finger still became the overall G.O.A.T shooter
> Played countless times with severe injuries as well
...so on...

I'm not saying he didn't have some great players around but Parish, DJ or Tiny most likely wouldn't be hall of famers if you remove Bird from those Celtics, or hadn't they play for the Celtics. Won't say the same for McHale but could happen. Walton gets mentioned but he was not the same and only played there for a year.
Bird gets to the HOF in any other situation.

He led the Celtics in points, rebounds, assists and steals in the 1985-86 RS, with a 67-15 record.
Did the same in 1982-83, team with a 56-26 record.

Also led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG%, plus 2nd in FT% (Carr 1st but with only 10 ft's made), 3rd in 3P% (two above had 10 less 3ss attempted) and 3rd in blocks, in the 1984 Playoffs.
In the Finals led the team in points, rebounds, steals, FG% and 3P%, also 2nd in blocks, 3rd in assists and 3rd in FT%, winning FMVP.
Unbelievable run against amazing competition with everyone else playing like sh!t, remember that's a forward doing that, leading the team in pretty much every category, just crazy.

When he injured his hand during the 1985 Playoffs still led them to the Finals and took the Lakers to 6 games, without him healthy they had no chance though.
Got them to the Finals also in 1987 and again took the amazing Lakers to 6 games, with various injured teammates and really no bench, logging in major minutes for the whole season already injured.

Also got FMVP in 1986 while leading the team in points, rebounds and assists throughout the PS.

But most importantly did that in what is most likely the G.O.A.T. era, G.O.A.T. as far as Conference and small forwards also.
Played in a league with players like Magic, Kareem, Moses, Erving, Jordan, Isiah, Hakeem, Barkley, Drexler, King, Wilkins, Moncrief, Dantley, English, Malone, Worthy, Aguirre, Gervin, Marques, Ewing, Bobby Jones, Lever, Roundfield, Buck, Gus, Wilkes, Stockton, Cooper, Rodman, Pippen, Mullin, Sikma and on and on... n' some really, really stacked teams.
That's really crazy.

I can't comment on what-ifs but dude was basically healthy for only like 8/9 seasons and look at what he did.
Still made dudes look like fools in his mid 30's with career ending injuries most wouldn't gone through, overweight, mobility gone, and counting all-time great defenders and athletes, also dudes that got recognition well into the 00's.

Remember he also played under stricter rules, much more physical basketball, way less superstar treatment, plus don't forget he didn't have some of these modern luxuries that would probably enable him to have a longer career.

Replace Bird with Lebron in the 80's, in the Celtics or whatever... think Lebron gets 4 MVP's? Or 3 MVP's while being 7x top2 in MVP voting? Or doing some of the really best stuff I've mentioned above? You're ****!ng crazy.

Please read carefully some of that stuff and then look at the competition.
People overlook that stuff though, underrating him in many different aspects and ways.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:42 AM   #2
keep-itreal
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

too long; didn't read.

Bird only has 3 rings.

Jordan >>>>>> Bird
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:43 AM   #3
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Also I won't argue against Magic rated above Larry all-time but Bird was clearly the better overall player for the most part and at their best, people forget or don't know about that, Magic's more hyped up. Pretty much always considered the best player before 1988, when they were both healthy, not hard to see when you look at it also. Also when they were both healthy Bird was always above on MVP voting except for 1987.
Magic got two of his 3 MVP's when Bird was a shell.

Magic has 2 more titles and nobody can take that away from him, that FMVP in 1980 belongs to Kareem though, and although Bird had a bad shooting Finals in 1981, he was pretty much just great at every other aspect plus was really clutch and the one to close it in game 6.

Bird walked in to a below average team and no really established stars or that close, Magic had a top3 player ever in Kareem close to his prime to lead the team, one of the best PG's in the game to learn from in Norm Nixon, plus a great Lakers team with the likes of Wilkes and Cooper, adding to that later. I mean Kareem was having goat-like Finals in 1985 still.

When you take into account everything, Magic had better teammates for the most part during their whole careers, plus he played in a weaker conference and SF's were better than PG's around the league.
Bird always had to face tougher and better competition in the East on his way to the Finals, plus also better players head-to-head on average.

Last edited by SHAQisGOAT : 05-06-2013 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

He's considered a top 5 player or right around it by pretty much everyone. MJ, Wilt, and Kareem are the only ones who are clear cut better than Bird.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:45 AM   #5
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by keep-itreal
too long; didn't read.

Bird only has 3 rings.

Jordan >>>>>> Bird

Why post then? Keep swimming on ignorance and gtfo.

I'm not saying Bird's better than Jordan also, I'll say that Bird got the best of their matchups most of the time though.

Don't know why I even bother replying though.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:47 AM   #6
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.J.
He's considered a top 5 player or right around it by pretty much everyone. MJ, Wilt, and Kareem are the only ones who are clear cut better than Bird.

Not saying which place he should be but imo only players I think he don't have a case against are MJ and Kareem, only who are definitely clear-cut above.
Hard to say when you look at everyone though and it will get subjective.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

He's a great player, but just like some of the legends that he surpassed in the 1980's. LBJ is going to surpass him in the all time lists. LeBron will be a 4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, 2x NBA Champion, 1x NBA Scoring Champion, Multiple All NBA Team and All NBA Defensive team appearances, 2x Olympic Gold Medalist at the age of 28.

Top 3 in career points per game averages in both the regular season and in the playoffs.

Last edited by Lebron23 : 05-06-2013 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Bird is better than LeBron. That's what you wanted to hear, right?
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT
[b]Also I won't argue against Magic rated above Larry all-time but Bird was clearly the better overall player for the most part and at their best, people forget or don't know about that, Magic's more hyped up. Pretty much always considered the best player before 1988, when they were both healthy, not hard to see when you look at it also.

The only thing in your argument I agree with in totality. Magic is ranked 3rd or 4th to me, depending on how I'm feeling about Bill that day truly, but I can concede that Bird had the more skill. Magic just produced the more winning results in his career. And, since that's a paramount measurement in the legacy and impact a player made on the game in his career, it's why Magic all time's rank should be higher. They played in the same era in the same years against each other several times in the Finals, and Magic walked away with two more rings. That's fact.

Don't tell me Magic's team was more stacked. Each were part of a team that is considered one of the 5 overall best team's in NBA history. That is a great indicator of it being an equalizer.

It's why I said in another thread, it's still debatable whether 2011-Present Lebron is better than 1984-1987 Bird, so it's not a closed topic that peak Bron is better than Peak Bird. I think he is personally, or at least will be by the time his peak is over, but it's still an open discussion to be had. Bird was greatness and skill personified in a tough as nails hick (half-joking). New cats tend to under appreciate it cause never saw it, or weren't old enough go truly grasp his grip on the game of ball. But, it doesn't diminish the truth. Peak Bird was one of the best to lace em up.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:58 AM   #10
Lebron23
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Even Bird said that LeBron had the greatest playoffs run last year. He also said that LeBron can get close to Michael Jordan.

http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/0...in-nba-history

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketba...-jordan/144672
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

He's one of the era-specific player.. Great in his era but probably would suck today..
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:03 AM   #12
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebron23
Even Bird said that LeBron had the greatest playoffs run last year. He also said that LeBron can get close to Michael Jordan.

http://www.complex.com/sports/2012/0...in-nba-history

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketba...-jordan/144672

So what? How many similar cases to that you have across history. Bird was always a humble guy towards other top players, even during his playing years.

Look at what he said when asked if a certain team could beat a certain team he was in, or if a certain player could beat him...
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:03 AM   #13
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by Droid101
Bird is better than LeBron. That's what you wanted to hear, right?

Not exactly, don't even wanna turn this into a Lebron vs Bird thread or something..
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:06 AM   #14
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

80's Bird GOAT Conversation
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:22 AM   #15
SHAQisGOAT
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Default Re: Larry Bird really gets underrated sometimes in different aspects

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackVVaves
Don't tell me Magic's team was more stacked. Each were part of a team that is considered one of the 5 overall best team's in NBA history. That is a great indicator of it being an equalizer.

Yea I'll say that, looking at everything for the most part it was.

Like I've said, Magic arrived at a Lakers team with Kareem, a top2 player ever close to his prime still beasting, to lead the team, Norm Nixon a really good PG to learn from, Wilkes a really good all-around SF, Cooper already a solid player and great defender in his 1st year playing. Then you can add Worthy who was a great player, McAdoo a former MVP, Scott another great player, also dudes like AC and Rambis. Plus even after some of them gone they add dudes like Perkins and Divac. Kareem at 37 was still doing things like putting up 26/9/5 on 60/77 in the 1985 Finals.

Bird arrived at a dying Celtics franchise, 2nd worst record in the league, team all messed up, no superstar or that close, lead them to the best record and to the ECF. Championship the year after with the main addition of Parish but Cowens gone.
Parish was really consistent and had crazy longevity, you knew what you're getting, but he was never clutch or a big time player, not close to someone like Kareem.
McHale only really break out like in 1984, I think at his best he was better than anyone I've mentioned above besides Kareem but by 1987 he was not the same due to injury.
Maxwell was a really good scorer and really clutch, could do other things also but not really much more, plus by '83 he was not the same and was a slacker.
DJ was a really good player and developed a new role as a PG, but not in his prime anymore and not better than someone like Worthy.
Tiny was still good but a shell, that was after he tore his achilles also.
Walton was a shell and only there for a year.
Bird's teammates from before 1986 were below Magic's, look at the 1984 PS for one example, pretty much all of them played like sh!t.
I do think the 1986 Celtics were better than any Lakers squad, also because of Bird though, but that's only one year. After '86 they got hit with plenty of injuries, they had no bench and never really had a team to compete anymore, not much Bird could do.

Of course I've mentioning all the players but the best ones...
Consider the years, their level, and what they did during those years:
Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Nixon, Wilkes, Cooper, McAdoo, Divac, Perkins > McHale, Parish, DJ, Maxwell, Tiny, Ainge, Lewis, Walton
^ Pretty much does it for me, even when you consider the other players

So yea for the most part, on average, Magic had better teammates around, definitely imo.

Last edited by SHAQisGOAT : 05-06-2013 at 01:27 AM.
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