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Old 05-13-2013, 04:01 PM   #106
tpols
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

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Originally Posted by Clifton
More like $40-60,000 to work 8 hours a day, then go home and grade and prepare for the next day's classes, all while taking care of their own kids.

And since most parents rely on the public school system to raise their kids, the job itself ends up being quite a bit more than merely "teaching."

"But they get the summer off." I won't say most, but many teachers have to supplement their incomes at least by working a lot of the summer. Many more have to take on extra grading or teaching opportunities besides their main day job.

Teachers should be paid enough to live comfortably. Any given teacher you pick at random probably works harder than you and makes less. Not that a person should be paid strictly according to "how hard they work," but people who perform a valuable service to society should be able to afford to feed a family.
I think it depends on the teacher to be honest.. Like my mom is a teacher of special ed kindergarden kids. Kids who curse all day, fight, come from bad environments.. call her TAs bitches, spit, throw things. Pretty much the worst thing you can imagine.

And her job is to try and haul them in from their bad habits.. thats a whole other level of teaching right there.

Then you have my high school spanish teacher, who was spanish himself knew the language since a little kid who dealt with us being pretty respectable older kids who were going to a good HS and cared at least a bit about material.. All he had to do was teach for half hour out the book and make us do exercises, check our HW, do tests/quizes. Not that crazy of reposnibility. He used to joke with us all the time and was a decent teacher, but its clear he didnt have some crazy workload.

3 80 minute teaching blocks and 1 80 minute block to work in his office.. 730-3ish 5 days a week with tenure only 5 years away to be locked into a good salary and full benfits for life?

Id take that in a heart beat right now. Hes one of the lucky teachers though.
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:21 PM   #107
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

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Originally Posted by Rake2204
Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.
In most states this is common practice.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:46 PM   #108
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

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Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.
Something that's very strange to me is how increasingly hard it is to become a public school teacher, while at the same time, high school graduates are seriously dumb, undereducated people. I include myself here. When I graduated high school, I knew nothing. And I was one of the smart ones, and my school was good. But I had class-class-test mentality, and at the end of it I basically knew no history, science, or literature that happened before the Alabama Bus Boycott. I didn't know a foreign language and I didn't understand my own. And I had zero moral or character formation other than whatever you get in team sports.

And it's like... ok... all my teachers over age 40 have Master's degrees. Great. That doesn't help me understand the world around me and those who dwell in it, at all. But if I have to match Charlemagne with four multiple choice options on a test, I have excellent test-taking strategies to help me do that.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:24 PM   #109
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

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Originally Posted by Clifton
Something that's very strange to me is how increasingly hard it is to become a public school teacher, while at the same time, high school graduates are seriously dumb, undereducated people. I include myself here. When I graduated high school, I knew nothing. And I was one of the smart ones, and my school was good. But I had class-class-test mentality, and at the end of it I basically knew no history, science, or literature that happened before the Alabama Bus Boycott. I didn't know a foreign language and I didn't understand my own. And I had zero moral or character formation other than whatever you get in team sports.

And it's like... ok... all my teachers over age 40 have Master's degrees. Great. That doesn't help me understand the world around me and those who dwell in it, at all. But if I have to match Charlemagne with four multiple choice options on a test, I have excellent test-taking strategies to help me do that.
That about sums it up. There's a lot of folks out there desperately trying to quantify all aspects of education but in their haste, they're quantifying but a small, small portion of what matters and treating it as if it's all that matters.

How do you quantify intriguing discussion? How do you measure whether a teacher is able to bring out the best in a student? What test is provided to show how a student's moralistic outlook was positively affected by a life-changing teacher role model? Instead, we test to see if everyone understands the Pythagorean Theorem and we judge an educator's worth based upon the results.

While we're at it, we insist teachers go back and take some classes, any classes, so they can eventually add what is oftentimes a worthless title to their name (many of the classes offered for teachers to re-new their certificates are generalized busy-work classes with no all-encompassing direction).

As I said before, this is it:

"What was educationally significant and hard to measure has been replaced by what is educationally insignificant and easy to measure. So now we measure how well we taught what isn't worth learning." - Arthur Costa

Last edited by Rake2204 : 05-13-2013 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:40 PM   #110
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

Before my current job, I spent a few months at an inner city elementary school in south St. Petersburg (very rough part of town). My biggest problems were the following: I came from a small, rural town in Ohio, and I had zero clue on how to deal with these kids, knowledge of where they came from, and understanding of how to deal with these situations, none of which I could EVER possibly relate to. I never recieved any proper training. New inner city teachers NEED intensive training They provided me a mentor teacher, gave me the curriculum, I was told that it was "gonna be tough" and that's about it.

Admittedly, these kids ate me alive. Most of my time was spent dealing with behavior issues, there was zero parental involvement (many of them had disconnected phones), and I left each day feeling frustrated beyond belief. My days were long, as I started at around 7 am and got home at about 6-6:30. Other teachers were routinely cussed out. That never happened to me, but fights, kids running out of class, and destroying classroom materials was a common occurance.

Through it all, I was unsure about my own approach. Too much yelling--they tune you out. Keeping an steady tone--sign of weaknesses. It takes a really special individual to teach at these schools. 2 months into the school year, I was placed on administrative leave.

I now know why they recruited me out of state. People currently in the district don't want these jobs. Very few can hack it.

Last edited by mlh1981 : 05-13-2013 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 05-13-2013, 06:51 PM   #111
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

Best part is the kid was probably doing that to fck with his teacher and get a laugh/attention from his classmates. I seriously doubt that kid is all rah rah about education and was just being a brat.

I don't know if there overpaid/underpaid but I have no idea why some people would want to deal with 14-17 year old kids. I had a few shitty teachers, but when I think about it, the mental strength some of these people have not to just unload and beat the piss outta some of these kids is crazy.

Maybe why you don't get highly qualified and educated people in HS. They'd get a handful of kids that wanted to actually learn, handful who didn't give a shit, and a handful that wanted to make there life miserable. Just makes sense to teach college instead of HS, atleast that's the way I'd look at it if I was some really smart educated guy.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:40 PM   #112
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

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Originally Posted by Rake2204
Good stuff. I agree with you here. As a teacher, I actually like the idea of being held accountable. However, I'm not entirely convinced measuring a teacher's worth and pay based upon their student's quiz and test scores would be the way to go.

As you said, a student's ability to learn and progress is only partly reliant upon a teacher's in-class ability. Home environment, parental guidance, and socio-economic level are just a few of the other major factors that can heavily affect a student's ability to pass a test or improve upon their test knowledge over a given period of time.

I feel as though the last thing we'd want to do is turn student grades and test results into a means of competition amongst teachers. If we feel educators are teaching to the test now, just wait to see what happens if their student's test scores begin affecting their salary.

But that's pretty much the system we're headed toward right now (if we're not there already). Immersion, critical thought, and understanding are all secondary qualities to teaching right now, only coming after the priorities of unstoppable forward progress (comprehension notwithstanding), benchmark meeting, and solid standardized test scores that never stop improving year by year by year.

Truth. Moreover, in Michigan teachers are required to continuously pursue higher education. Even though I earned my Education degree and own a teacher's certificate, I'm given a window of time for which I must return to college and take at least 18 more credits worth of classes just to keep my certificate active. Then, obviously, after I finish those 18 credits, I'll be met with another deadline shortly thereafter.

This is required in most states and is why the majority of people get a Master's degree. Once you have your Master's you are not required to take any more credits. So you mine as well get the degree if you have to take classes anyway.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:07 AM   #113
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

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Originally Posted by tpols
Then why should he be disciplined? Students not being able to challenge teachers is the reason they don't give a fvck.

He was disrupting class.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:30 AM   #114
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Default Re: Kid tells teacher like it is

Nobody posted the update video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKjqjpePhTc
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