Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Football Forum

Football Forum Football forum - NFL football forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2013, 07:39 PM   #16
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
He did face a lot of 8 man boxes, but it was dictated by the offensive formations they used, nothing more or less. It's natural to play 8 in the box when their is only one wideout on the field.

Your second question is something I've already addressed. Peterson had probably his worst year production wise with Brett Favre are a bunch of weapons around him....but has his best year by far with Ponder and specifically took off when Harvin went down.

Ridley is 2nd on the list for facing 8 man boxes with two or more wideouts on the field - his quarterback is Tom Brady.

Arian Foster is also up there, and he has a good quarterback.

Vick Ballard as well, with Andrew Luck.

Alex Green 5th on the list, Aaron Rodgers is his quarterback.

Gore 6th, Kap and Smith his quarterbacks.

It doesn't correlate. On the bottom of the list is Charles at 6.5 percent facing an 8 man box with two or more wiseouts....with some of the worst quarterbacking we've seen in awhile.
I disagree 100% however like mentioned earlier in this thread, it could be true that Peterson actually benefits from loaded boxes in that once he gets by the first man he has an open homerun

loading the box is a gamble for the defense, if they bring the safety up front then that safety better be in the area that the RB is headed, otherwise removing him from the backfield is a huge disadvantage to the defense

I think a lot of Peterson's homeruns were because of failed loaded boxes...


either way run game and pass game def effect each other...no question about that
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 07:56 PM   #17
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,811
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Where's the proof that a great QB effects a great RB?

RB's who are great will be great regardless of who their QB is. There are a number of examples of this throughout history. If having a great QB meant makings things easier on a RB, why has Peyton Manning's running backs for close to the last 10 years been lackluster in production? Tom Brady's running backs? Drew Brees? Aaron Rodgers?

Meanwhile you got Peterson doing 2000+ yards on 6ypc with Ponder but has his worst production of his career with Favre and lots of weapons..... MJD having great years with terrible QB's, Doug Martin just had a phenominal year with Freeman who had a poor year....Jamal Charles had a great year with terrible QBs, CJ2K had his best year with a guy who can't find a job in the NFL now...Gore has been great throughout his career with less than stellar QB play, Tiki Barber had a fantastic year with terrible QB play, Steven Jackson....

Great RB's will be great regardless.
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 11:39 PM   #18
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

I agree that great RBs will be great regardless but obviously a great pass game opens up the field for them...

Sproles had his best year ever with the Saints and Brees, 6.9 YPC...he couldn't get that on any other team

ALL of Edgerrin James' best years were with Manning, fell off when he went to Arizona

Corey Dillon had his best year ever when he went to the Pats...1,600 yards at 4.7 YPC...that was his first ring, the next year he got injured




just because there are some RBs like Peterson and MJD that can make things happen with a bad QB you assume that RBs aren't effected by QB play? come on...that isn't logical thinking at all
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 09:06 AM   #19
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,811
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I agree that great RBs will be great regardless but obviously a great pass game opens up the field for them...

Sproles had his best year ever with the Saints and Brees, 6.9 YPC...he couldn't get that on any other team

ALL of Edgerrin James' best years were with Manning, fell off when he went to Arizona

Corey Dillon had his best year ever when he went to the Pats...1,600 yards at 4.7 YPC...that was his first ring, the next year he got injured




just because there are some RBs like Peterson and MJD that can make things happen with a bad QB you assume that RBs aren't effected by QB play? come on...that isn't logical thinking at all

Opens up the field how? Ridley faced 8 man boxes 2nd most by percentage this year and his QB is arguably the 3rd or 2nd best QB ever. Alex green was 5th with Aaron Rodgers, the best quarterback in the league in the prime of his career.

Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:20 PM   #20
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Opens up the field how? Ridley faced 8 man boxes 2nd most by percentage this year and his QB is arguably the 3rd or 2nd best QB ever. Alex green was 5th with Aaron Rodgers, the best quarterback in the league in the prime of his career.

I'm really not sure why Ridley faced so many 8 man fronts but like I said earlier, that is very poor logic to conclude that a great pass attack doesn't help out a team's running game because of a few exceptions
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:26 PM   #21
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Quote:
1 Frank Gore SF 149 109 42.25%
2 Shonn Greene NYJ 168 108 39.13%
3 Adrian L. Peterson MIN 228 120 34.48%
4 Bilal Powell NYJ 74 36 32.73%
5 DeMarco Murray DAL 111 50 31.06%
6 Ryan Mathews SD 136 48 26.09%
7 Vick Ballard IND 156 55 26.07%
8 Mark Ingram NO 116 40 25.64%
9 Isaac Redman PIT 82 28 25.45%
10 Michael Turner ATL 166 56 25.23%
11 Donald Brown IND 81 27 25.00%
12 Jonathan Dwyer PIT 117 39 25.00%
13 Rashad Jennings JAX 76 25 24.75%
14 Michael Bush CHI 86 28 24.56%
15 Arian Foster HST 267 84 23.93%
16 Steven Jackson SL 197 61 23.64%
* LEAGUE 10130 3069 23.25%
17 Stevan Ridley NE 226 64 22.07%
18 DeAngelo Williams CAR 136 37 21.39%
19 Marshawn Lynch SEA 248 67 21.27%
20 BenJarvus Green-Ellis CIN 220 58 20.86%
21 Alfred Morris WAS 267 68 20.30%
22 Ahmad Bradshaw NYG 177 44 19.91%
23 Felix Jones DAL 89 22 19.82%
24 LaRod Stephens-Howling ARZ 90 20 18.18%
25 Trent Richardson CLE 219 48 17.98%
26 Ray Rice BAL 215 42 16.34%
27 Doug Martin TB 267 52 16.30%
28 Chris D. Johnson TEN 233 43 15.58%
29 Darren McFadden OAK 183 33 15.28%
30 Bernard Pierce BAL 92 16 14.81%
31 Fred Jackson BUF 98 17 14.78%
32 Matt Forte CHI 212 36 14.52%
33 Alex Green GB 116 19 14.07%
34 Reggie Bush MIA 196 31 13.66%
35 Willis McGahee DEN 146 21 12.57%
36 Pierre Thomas NO 92 13 12.38%
37 Jamaal Charles KC 252 33 11.58%
38 C.J. Spiller BUF 184 23 11.11%
39 Knowshon Moreno DEN 124 14 10.14%
40 LeSean McCoy PHI 180 20 10.00%
41 Bryce Brown PHI 105 10 8.70%
42 Mikel Leshoure DET 202 13 6.05%

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ht-in-the-box/

^^^ that is who faced the most 8 man fronts IN TOTAL
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 09:43 PM   #22
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,811
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

It's not a few exceptions, it's a bunch of examples of there being no relationship to great passing making it noticeably easier for running backs.
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 12:33 AM   #23
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
It's not a few exceptions, it's a bunch of examples of there being no relationship to great passing making it noticeably easier for running backs.
I just gave you 3 examples in Edgerrin, Sproles, and Dillon...I'm sure I could dig up a dozen more as well.
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 04:33 AM   #24
michaelray
Can barely lace up my sneakers
 
michaelray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 36
michaelray has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Ponder vs Gabbert
Who wins?
michaelray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 05:30 PM   #25
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,811
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

Quote:
Originally Posted by -p.tiddy-
I just gave you 3 examples in Edgerrin, Sproles, and Dillon...I'm sure I could dig up a dozen more as well.

You're missing the point entirely.

The point is there is no relationship between great pass game making it easier on a running back, i.e. more production. Just like there is no relationship to a bad quarterback making it harder on a running back.

You can name examples of great years from running backs who played with great quarterbacks as much as I can give examples of great years from running backs with average to below average to terrible quarterbacks.

That's the whole point.

Last edited by Carbine : 05-15-2013 at 05:33 PM.
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 06:31 PM   #26
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

I disagree

And AGAIN, I just gave you 3 examples of RBs that had better production because of a pass attack...I think you must have missed my point
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2013, 06:51 PM   #27
Carbine
Facts Are Misleading
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: A Court Near You
Posts: 7,811
Carbine has decent reputationCarbine has decent reputation
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

You can disagree all you want but the examples of this speak for themselves. It's obvious. There's literally numerous (10+) examples of this every year.

Peterson is a prime example of this, he had Brett Favre and a bunch of weapons and had arguably the worst production of his career. He then averages 6 yards a pop and almost breaks the rushing yards record with Ponder and no weapons.

Trust me, Edge wasn't the same runner in Arizona as he was in Indy.

When the decline hits a running back it's obvious. It happened to him that year.

Corey Dillion was a great RB before New England, six year average of like 1250 yards, 4.4 yards per carry.

You could easily make the argument the spike in production was due to running behind one of the best olines in the NFL. That seems far more feasible than playing with Brady, who only tossed the ball under 480 times and 3700 yards. Not like that's a dominant passing attack.
Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2013, 07:26 PM   #28
-p.tiddy-
the Sho Kosugi of ISH
 
-p.tiddy-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: -dallas, texas-
Posts: 15,000
-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable-p.tiddy- is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: "and Adrian Peterson had to deal with 8 man boxes all the time because of Ponder"

all your 10+ examples are just theories though...maybe Peterson runs for 3,000 yards if he were on the Packers

obviously he is going to play great no matter what team he is on, but that doesn't mean his production isn't effected by the passing game
-p.tiddy- is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy