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Old 05-12-2013, 12:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtaro CP3KDKG
MJ stans are the worst stans in pro basketball Payton owned the shit outta MJ IN 1/2 of NBA FINALS and then Rodman dominated on the boards and won chitown the games SMH biggest Fmvp robbery til 08

Corrected.

MJ was SOLID in game 1 with 29 pts.

MJ was SOLID in game 2 with 28 pts.

MJ was GREAT in payton's backyard with 36 pts.

Bulls were up 3-0!. MJ won them 2 games. Rodman won them 1 game.


No matter how you slice it, they NEVER give FMVP for averaging SINGLE DIGIT scoring.

7.5 ppg.

to win FMVP, a primary scorer need to cross 25 ppg & another catagory with 5+. MJ DID

to win FMVP, a rebounder must cross 15 rpg & have DOUBLE DOUBE. rodman FAILED!

Pippen FAILED too.

MJ is the reason why bulls pull out in 6 games.

Rodman played TERRIFIC. thats about it.

to win FMVP he still needed 10 ppg / 15 rpg ave.

especially since Pippen TANKED with 15 ppg @ 34%FG kobe like.

Last edited by gengiskhan : 05-12-2013 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:16 PM   #32
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Thats a hell of alot of boards for that time period. And so what he didnt get a large amount of rebounds in two games. For the series, he played great. Youre being unreasonable.


Rodman was really good at rebounding the ball but he wasn't great in that series because Kemp destroyed him in that series.. Rodman was great at getting rebounds but most of that was off of the doubles and triple teams MJ was seeing..

Mj's shooting percentage wasn't great but when your second best scorer isn't getting it done it will have an impact..It's Not like having a CENTER shooting over 50 percent and winning BIG GAME 7 's for you...

IS MJ the only player ever able to carry a team to a title with his sidekick shooting under 40 percent for the entire playoffs?
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
Kemp had 4 FGM out of 7 FGA the whole game for scoring 14 pts.

Kemp was actually criticized for not gunning for 35+pts like MJ in the most important game of franchises career AT HOME after being down 0-2.

thank god I dont see game only through Jordan's stans prism.

Kemp was actually critized for not going for 40 pts & getting seattle their first win AT HOME.
I was referring to the series as a whole. Not just game three. But again, at what point do we credit the defense (Rodmans) for limiting Kemps FGAs?

You cant be this simple.
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Old 05-12-2013, 12:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Kemp owned the shit out of Rodman that series, and no one likes to bring up the fact that the Bulls got some handy calls going their way the whole series.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:03 PM   #35
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Rodman's rebounding in that series was crucial, but that's literally the ONLY thing he did. On defense, Kemp used and abused him.

Meanwhile, Mike carried the scoring load. Was probably the teams best playmaker too. His defense? Wasn't too shabby either. Payton and Hawkins were held to 16ppg (on average) and 44% shooting.

MJ was the Finals MVP. No doubt about it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
Kemp owned the shit out of Rodman that series, and no one likes to bring up the fact that the Bulls got some handy calls going their way the whole series.

not just rodman was OWNED!

Pipped got RAPPED defensively bu Kemp.

Kemp had couple of posterizing dunks on both terrific all-time Top 5 defenders ever.

The problem with Jordan stans is, they see everything from Bulls prism.

Its almost like Kemp wasnt the best performer of the series 23+/10+ with more BPG than opponent's PF rodman.

Kemp was the only LEGIT FMVP besides Jordan.

Rodman was NEVER really an FMVP at all. His BPG was horrible. committed many turnovers.

He was a REBOUNDING SPECIALIST who did exactly that. played GREAT!
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #37
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

The 96 Finals was a bit of a weird one, the Bulls raced out to a 3-0 lead in the series, and pretty much everyone and their grandma said it was over. And it was, basically. Seattle just played their butts off the next two games to save face and Chicago let the foot off the gas pedal a little bit for the first time that year.

Really for the Bulls their NBA Finals that year was sweeping Orlando. That was the big match up. Beating who ever came out of the West was basically a formality.

I'll give MJ a pass on the Father's Day clinching game too, given the circumstances of it, I can understand why his head might've not be fully into the game.
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Old 05-12-2013, 02:44 PM   #38
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuniva_dAMiGhTy
Rodman's rebounding in that series was crucial, but that's literally the ONLY thing he did. On defense, Kemp used and abused him.

Meanwhile, Mike carried the scoring load. Was probably the teams best playmaker too. His defense? Wasn't too shabby either. Payton and Hawkins were held to 16ppg (on average) and 44% shooting.

MJ was the Finals MVP. No doubt about it.

MJ FAILED to "DOMINATE" the NBA finals like 1991, 1992, 1993

that 31+/11+ or that 41 ppg/6+ were missing.

But that dont mean MJ did not deserve 1996 FMVP by being GOOD or SOLID 27+/4+/5+ especially the way Pippen had a KOBE like FLOP the whole series with 15+ppg at 34%FG
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #39
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

MJ shot 5-19 in the deciding game. Obviously Rodman was the real finals MVP
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #40
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave
The 96 Finals was a bit of a weird one, the Bulls raced out to a 3-0 lead in the series, and pretty much everyone and their grandma said it was over. And it was, basically. Seattle just played their butts off the next two games to save face and Chicago let the foot off the gas pedal a little bit for the first time that year.

Really for the Bulls their NBA Finals that year was sweeping Orlando. That was the big match up. Beating who ever came out of the West was basically a formality.

I'll give MJ a pass on the Father's Day clinching game too, given the circumstances of it, I can understand why his head might've not be fully into the game.



Sonics would of beat the Magic in 7 with home court advantage
Kemp was the best player in the league that year. Too bad he wasn't
more selfish.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

"Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2."

As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like saying Rodman was the MVP of the Soncis series is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.
Seattle coach George Karl said, “As you evaluate the series, Dennis Rodman won two basketball games. Game 2 and tonight, he was the reason they were successful.”


It's a coin-toss between Michael and Dennis," Seattle coach George Karl said Monday, a day after his SuperSonics fell behind 3-0 to the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals.

In Game 6, in which Jordan shot 5-for-19 (26.3%) and Chicago 39.7% as a team, Rodman had 19 rebounds, 11 offensive, tying the single-game record for the second time, nine points, five assists and three steals.

In Game 2, in which Michael Jordan shot 9-for-22 (40.9%) and Chicago 39.0% as a team, Rodman scored 10 points and grabbed 20 rebounds, an NBA Finals record-tying 11 on the offensive glass, to lead the Bulls to a 92-88 win. “Rodman was definitely the difference,” Hershey Hawkins said. “Rodman killed us,” said Vincent Askew. “There is no question he was the MVP of the game,” Karl said. “His offensive rebounds hurt us. A lot of possessions, the momentum of the game, the style of the game, and even the scoreboard might have changed.”
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:21 PM   #42
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

"Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2."

As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like saying Rodman was the MVP of the Soncis series is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.
Seattle coach George Karl said, “As you evaluate the series, Dennis Rodman won two basketball games. Game 2 and tonight, he was the reason they were successful.”


It's a coin-toss between Michael and Dennis," Seattle coach George Karl said Monday, a day after his SuperSonics fell behind 3-0 to the Chicago Bulls in the NBA Finals.

In Game 6, in which Jordan shot 5-for-19 (26.3%) and Chicago 39.7% as a team, Rodman had 19 rebounds, 11 offensive, tying the single-game record for the second time, nine points, five assists and three steals.

In Game 2, in which Michael Jordan shot 9-for-22 (40.9%) and Chicago 39.0% as a team, Rodman scored 10 points and grabbed 20 rebounds, an NBA Finals record-tying 11 on the offensive glass, to lead the Bulls to a 92-88 win. “Rodman was definitely the difference,” Hershey Hawkins said. “Rodman killed us,” said Vincent Askew. “There is no question he was the MVP of the game,” Karl said. “His offensive rebounds hurt us. A lot of possessions, the momentum of the game, the style of the game, and even the scoreboard might have changed.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ddBkyCKHus&#t=1m40s

Post '96 finals analysis of the MVP.

Listen, everybody knows I'm a Tarheel, undergraduate and graduate and obviously one of the world's biggest Jordan fans coming from that background. I really believe Dennis Rodman was the MVP of this series. Jordan was the difference in game 3. I think game 1 was largely a team effort. But in game 2 and 6, particularly yesterday when the psyche was hanging in the balance. I think he's the guy who established their authority for them on the court and the guy who provided clutch plays for them when they most needed them, particularly at the end of game 2.


As someone who has actually SEEN the series, I've been split 50/50 on who the MVP was. Rodman was (clearly) the MVP of two wins (Jordan played sub-par in those games), Jordan was clearly the MVP of the other two (Rodman played/rebounded well in those games).

Finals MVP voting broke down like this...

11 votes total

MJ got 6 votes
Kemp got 3 votes
Rodman got 2 votes

Rodman was definitely a candidate so I'm not sure why people are acting like this is revisionist history when at the time many thought he deserved it, and he did in fact receive votes for the award too. Even in retrospect you can make that argument. Rodman's historic offensive rebounding was the single thing that made up for the Bull's and Jordan's shooting woes. That is the biggest reason they won despite shooting worse than Seattle, as Rodman kept buying possession after possession, which not only created second chance points for his team but huge momentum shifts as well.


Plagiarism?
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:55 PM   #43
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Bulls # 2 scoring option.

1991 (age 26) - 20.8 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.4 spg, 45.3 FG%

1992 (age 27) - 20.8 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 48.4 FG%

1993 (age 28) - 20.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 7.7 apg, 2.0 spg, 43 FG%

1996 (age 31) - 15.7 ppg , 8.2 rpg, 5.3 apg, 2.3 spg, 34 FG%

1997 (age 32) - 20.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 42.1 FG%

1998 (age 33) - 15.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.7 spg 41 FG%

You're 2nd option puts up 15 pts every Finals game at 34%FG in his PRIME yrs.

& MJ dont deserve FMVP for 27+/4+/5+ @ 42%FG.

Dennis Rodman was ROBBED of FMVP for 7.5 / 14.5.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:55 PM   #44
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Jordan was the MVP. The people that usually have a problem with it are the ones that usually have a problem with how much credit Jordan gets in general.

Jordan played below his standards while Rodman didn't. But that doesn't mean Rodman was a better player in the series. There's no one in their right mind that can seriously say the Bulls would've had a better chance without Jordan then without Rodman.

The argument against Jordan seems to be his inefficiency and scoring impact in general wasn't greater then Rodmans rebounding impact. Well, why do these same people not argue for Wallace over Billups in 04, KG over Pierce in 08, and Gasol over Kobe in 2010? Scoring wise, their impact was equal or less, while their teammates not only had a huge impact on the boards that may have not been as big as Rodman's, but some of the clearly had a larger offensive impact then him.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:00 PM   #45
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Default Re: Michael Jordan was the only LEGIT 1996 FMVP candidate besides Kemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gengiskhan
Pippen has always been hurt.

He was hurt in 1997 NBA finals.

His back was hurt in 1998 NBA Finals.

Those are not excuses. 15 ppg is way too low for Top 5 players in the game as a 2nd option.

reality is 31 yrs old Pippen was AGING pretty fast offensively. That put INCREDIBLE pressure on 33-35 yrs old MJ as Rodman was Rebounding specialist, a ONE TRICK PONY.

No the reality is that Pippen was playing with a wrist, knee, and ankle injury in the 96 playoffs. He still led the playoffs in drating and defensive win shares.
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