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Old 05-13-2013, 07:12 PM   #1
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Default Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

i know which side i'm leaning towards!

...

Phil Ivey, British casino embroiled in dispute over payment of $12 million in winnings
By Jay Busbee | The Turnstile 19 hours ago



Phil Ivey. (Getty Images)

What's the best way to win a game of chance? Turn it into a game of certainty.

That, a British casino is charging, is exactly what world-renowned poker player Phil Ivey did in winning 7.6 million about $11.9 million in one spectacular run of punto banco, a baccarat game. Crockfords is charging that Ivey observed tiny flaws in the game's cards, and used that knowledge to give the house a severe thrashing. As a result, the casino is refusing to pay, and Ivey has filed suit to receive his withheld winnings.

Basically speaking, the idea in punto banco is for the player to draw two or three cards with a sum total closer to nine than the dealer. At the game last August played at Crockfords' casino in Mayfair, London, Ivey and an unidentified woman were playing alone against the dealer, in full view of 10 casino cameras. Ivey started his betting at 50,000 (about $77,000) per hand, and later raised that, with the casino's blessing, to 150,000 (about $230,000) per hand. As in blackjack, punto banco hands can be over in less than a minute. It's a game that's supposed to be entirely based on the luck of the draw.

Over the course of three nights, Ivey and his companion dipped as low as 500,000 ($770,000) in the red, but ended up with a substantial sum. The casino's theory: that Ivey had spotted tiny imperfections in the cards' designs, and used that knowledge to help identify when certain cards would be on the table, even when face-down.

Here, in an illustration created by The Daily Mail, is one possible way that the alleged scam could have unfolded:


Via The Daily Mail.

Cards are supposed to be marked symmetrically, but a possible manufacturing defect may have left the cards asymmetrical and, thus, identifiable from the back. In addition, the cards should be disposed of after each day's play, but Ivey apparently managed to convince the casino to keep the cards in play. A player in such a case could know in advance that the cards were defects, or could notice it in the course of play.

"I was given a receipt for my winnings, but Crockfords has withheld payment," Ivey said in a statement. "I have no alternative but to take legal action." Shortly after completing play, the casino held Ivey's winnings, returning only his initial 1 million stake.

Lance Bradley of Bluff Magazine told ABC News last fall that Ivey has a sterling reputation. "There's nothing in his past that would hint at his being a cheater or unethical in any way," Bradley said. "People say he's arguably the best poker player in the world; but, really, there's no argument: He's number one. He's known both for his skill and for his love of high-stakes games. He loves anything where there's some sexiness at stake."

Crockfords, meanwhile, has pledged to defend its decision. The casino is now having tapes of the night scrutinized by specialists in fraud prevention.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/the-tu...032520482.html
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

casino's fault.... should have been in control of the decks they use...

but im an Ivey fan, so maybe bias
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:20 PM   #3
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

So they will have to prove that he somehow memorized their deck and abused that knowledge. I'm not an expert on gambling but wouldn't that be a hard case to make? Looks to me like he'll win his suit.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

IMO if a player is able to read the cards from the back that is the casino's fault, no the gambler

of course, casinos don't see it that way...but that is how it should be
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

Ivey was my favorite poker player back when it was on TV all the time. I hope he wins the suit, even if he did notice imperfections in the cards it should be the casino's fault.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

LOL why is this his fault even if its true? He should no doubt get paid.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #7
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Default ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

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ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

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Originally Posted by TylerOO
LOL why is this his fault even if its true? He should no doubt get paid.

This, but you just know the casino is going to get out of paying him. Large corporations always win.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

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Originally Posted by MavsSuperFan
This, but you just know the casino is going to get out of paying him. Large corporations always win.

It will likely be settled out of court for some undisclosed amount that will still give Ivey millions.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
It will likely be settled out of court for some undisclosed amount that will still give Ivey millions.

Millions which he doesn't exactly need either. It must be nice to be a gambler with the confidence to walk into a casino with half a million and take over 12 from the house.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
It will likely be settled out of court for some undisclosed amount that will still give Ivey millions.
is that because he's basically the top card player in the world?

otherwise, what do they do with ppl caught counting cards in 21? do they pay 'em and then permanently ban them? or try to weasel out of paying them, just like this?


i mean, the whole industry is designed to part folks with their money, anyway. what i really dislike about this is when folks find a way to beat the system and then the casino in essence fails to hold up its side of the bargain. i mean, it was a battle of trickery in the first place!

you lost... so take your lumps, correct the flaw in your money-making scheme, and carry on!
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

Casino should just pay up. Not worth the bad rep it will get.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

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Originally Posted by iamgine
Casino should just pay up. Not worth the bad rep it will get.

12 mil wouldn't even make a dent in a big time casino's money. This would also be nearly impossible to prove.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

you mean the guy that makes this kind of plays needs to cheat?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--Qap3VT_ZY

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Old 05-13-2013, 11:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: Phil Ivey- ruthless cheater or cagey bastard?

Ivey is also a time traveler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GjuP0SWqUR0#t=18 s
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