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Old 06-17-2013, 12:52 AM   #46
baseketball4life
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
I think Neymar and Hulk are deadly on the wings and pretty much the best wing play in the world(Hulk is a bull) but I wouldn't call them the favorites. The new crop of players are new and inexperienced and I don't think they have the mental strength or willpower(as cheesy as it sounds) to beat Spain, Italy or Germany.

A well disciplined team with a very good midfield can get by them easily I think.
when has a Euro team won in South America?

If all things equal, Germany in particular is amazing. Italy is stacked. Spain is very good as well.
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Old 06-17-2013, 02:52 AM   #47
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by baseketball4life
when has a Euro team won in South America?

If all things equal, Germany in particular is amazing. Italy is stacked. Spain is very good as well.


I believe I heard today that a Euro team has never won a World Cup in South America.
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Old 06-17-2013, 03:18 AM   #48
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by Grinder
Heck no.

Good luck to Japan, Italy, and Brazil.

Tahiti >>
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:42 AM   #49
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by baseketball4life
when has a Euro team won in South America?

If all things equal, Germany in particular is amazing. Italy is stacked. Spain is very good as well.
i think you mixed up those two... no one on the italy team would make the spanish starting lineup, except whoever they have at RB

and a team that won 3 major tournaments in a row is not 'very good' they are f*cking dominant
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:03 AM   #50
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by alenleomessi
i think you mixed up those two... no one on the italy team would make the spanish starting lineup, except whoever they have at RB

and a team that won 3 major tournaments in a row is not 'very good' they are f*cking dominant
The entire spanish defense and striker would get replaced by italians, if the two teams merged hypothetically.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:10 AM   #51
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by Nick Young
The entire spanish defense and striker would get replaced by italians, if the two teams merged hypothetically.
I take it you didn't see the last match, did you? The whole defensive line (and yes, that includes Arbeloa and Pique) look in full form. They were outstanding last night. I wouldn't replace anyone on this team except for Arbeloa and, maybe, Soldado (although he looks very good as well, let's see how he performs).
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:17 AM   #52
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by alenleomessi
i think you mixed up those two... no one on the italy team would make the spanish starting lineup, except whoever they have at RB

and a team that won 3 major tournaments in a row is not 'very good' they are f*cking dominant

BS. Italy are going through a but of a cold streak but they are still a great squad that are built for tournaments. Their defense is one(if not the best) in the world, their midfield is great with Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchiso and even Montolivo. Not to mention they are always poised, hard nosed and have that winners mentality.

BTW, I'm sure De Rossi would be able to replace Bosquets easily, Barazagli/Cheillini for Pique and Pirlo is just as good as Xavi/Iniesta(although you obv don't agree since your a barca fanboy)
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:25 AM   #53
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Eh, Italy and Spain have such different football philosophies that you'd be better off playing with 11 Spaniards than with a mixture of mostly Spaniards and a couple of Italians or vice versa. You have to consider that these players don't really have time to form a common identity either.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:52 AM   #54
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdreason
I believe I heard today that a Euro team has never won a World Cup in South America.

No Euro team has ever won the WC in South or North America (3 world cups in Mexico and U.S won by Brazil - 2- and Argentina) and Brazil the only non european nation to have won it in Europe. But it took Pele and Garrincha (the duo that never lost a single game together) to do so.

BTW, Pele and Garrinchas godly record playing together (the 58/62 Brazil is perhaps the greatest team ever in terms of accolades) :

36 wins and 4 draws in 40 games. They scored together 55 goals in those games - Pele with 44 goals and Garrincha, 11.

Last edited by lakers_forever : 06-17-2013 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:19 AM   #55
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by lakers_forever
No Euro team has ever won the WC in South or North America (3 world cups in Mexico and U.S won by Brazil - 2- and Argentina) and Brazil the only non european nation to have won it in Europe. But it took Pele and Garrincha (the duo that never lost a single game together) to do so.

BTW, Pele and Garrinchas godly record playing together (the 58/62 Brazil is perhaps the greatest team ever in terms of accolades) :

36 wins and 4 draws in 40 games. They scored together 55 goals in those games - Pele with 44 goals and Garrincha, 11.
Yeah, the dinosaur age was pretty cool. I swear Pele has to be one of the most overrated player's in soccer history. Meaningless goals in the Brazilian league, and too scared to prove himself with real competition in Europe. Brazil has been consistently underachieving since they won the 2002 WC (or well, 2007 if you want to count the Copa America). They're basically all hype and past glory at this point.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:20 AM   #56
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

there is first time for everything really, argentina hasnt improved at all since 2010 ( might have even gotten worse ), brazil are slightly better but very inexperienced and as of right now win on talent alone, uruguay might not even make the WC and as we saw last night, their defense and midfield are average. colombia and chile might make a 1/4 final surprise but thats it.
looks like germany or spain again, unless argentina finds some wunderkind defender and playmaker
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:28 AM   #57
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
BS. Italy are going through a but of a cold streak but they are still a great squad that are built for tournaments. Their defense is one(if not the best) in the world, their midfield is great with Pirlo, De Rossi, Marchiso and even Montolivo. Not to mention they are always poised, hard nosed and have that winners mentality.

BTW, I'm sure De Rossi would be able to replace Bosquets easily, Barazagli/Cheillini for Pique and Pirlo is just as good as Xavi/Iniesta(although you obv don't agree since your a barca fanboy)
no i actually agree de rossi is better than busquets and pirlo is better than current xavi, but i would rather go with the sure thing - 2xeuros,1xWC, 2xCL trio, dont you think?

go watch the euro 2012 final again, and see the difference between chiellini and pique. barzagli? lol... and i would still rather have villa than anyone the italians have at forward ( mario might ruin the team chemistry )
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:37 AM   #58
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by LilKateMoss
Yeah, the dinosaur age was pretty cool. I swear Pele has to be one of the most overrated player's in soccer history. Meaningless goals in the Brazilian league, and too scared to prove himself with real competition in Europe. Brazil has been consistently underachieving since they won the 2002 WC (or well, 2007 if you want to count the Copa America). They're basically all hype and past glory at this point.

Every single player of those squads of Brazil in 58 and 62 played in Brasil. Pele did not have to go anywhere because he already played for the best team in the world in the 60's, Santos. And Pele had a better goal average against european teams than his career average. Pele's Santos destroying Benfica (European champions) in the Portugal for the Intercontinental Cup (Pele scored 3 and gave an assist to Coutinho after a great individual play) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Dw8TWMJik

Here's the king of European Cup himself (with 5 titles for a Real Madrid that ruled Europe in the late 50's) and one of the greatest footballers ever, Alfredo Di Stefano, saying Pele is the best player ever:

"The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better".


http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


Rivera, a legend of the 60's and early 70's, one of the greatest players ever, also saying the same thing:

"Messi is quite a weapon for Barca. Having him in your team is huge, he's the most decisive player right now," Rivera was quoted as saying by AS.

"However, I do think there's someone who was even better and that's Pele. He used both feet on the pitch. He was as dangerous with his right as he was with his left. He was strong in the air as well, and created a lot of chances."

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


And here the Ballon D'or (Golden Ball) winners (some of the greates legends of the game) themselves voting for best player ever. 17 past winners voted for Pele while the second place, Maradona, only got 3 votes for first place:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/b...-y.html#ff-poc

You sir are dead wrong in your ridiculous claim. Legends like Di Stefano, Kopa, Rivera who played in Europe in the 60's think Pele was the best while you think he did is overrated because did not play in Europe. Which opinion should we trust?


Brazil won 2 Copa Americas (2004 and 2007) and 2 confederations Cup (2005 and 2009) since 2002. They underachieved in 2006 and 2010 wc, but most nt's would be glad to have won those titles in 11 years. Argentina, for instance, has not won anything at senior level since the Copa America in 1993.
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:53 AM   #59
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

TBH, it's pointless discussing who the best player of all time is considering Pele played half a century ago and not even in Europe.

I think it's also unfair how Pele gets regarded as the GOAT. People just assume of it because of the nostalgia and the "urban legends" surrounding him.


^^
Btw, didn't Pele say that Neymar is better than Messi? I think he said this last year lol
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:55 AM   #60
LilKateMoss
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers_forever
Every single player of those squads of Brazil in 58 and 62 played in Brasil. Pele did not have to go anywhere because he already played for the best team in the world in the 60's, Santos. And Pele had a better goal average against european teams than his career average. Pele's Santos destroying Benfica (European champions) in the Portugal for the Intercontinental Cup (Pele scored 3 and gave an assist to Coutinho after a great individual play) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Dw8TWMJik

Here's the king of European Cup himself (with 5 titles for a Real Madrid that ruled Europe in the late 50's) and one of the greatest footballers ever, Alfredo Di Stefano, saying Pele is the best player ever:

"The best player ever? Pele. Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are both great players with specific qualities, but Pele was better".


http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


Rivera, a legend of the 60's and early 70's, one of the greatest players ever, also saying the same thing:

"Messi is quite a weapon for Barca. Having him in your team is huge, he's the most decisive player right now," Rivera was quoted as saying by AS.

"However, I do think there's someone who was even better and that's Pele. He used both feet on the pitch. He was as dangerous with his right as he was with his left. He was strong in the air as well, and created a lot of chances."

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain...e-was-the-best


And here the Ballon D'or (Golden Ball) winners (some of the greates legends of the game) themselves voting for best player ever. 17 past winners voted for Pele while the second place, Maradona, only got 3 votes for first place:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/b...-y.html#ff-poc

You sir are dead wrong in your ridiculous claim. Legends like Di Stefano, Kopa, Rivera who played in Europe in the 60's think Pele was the best while you think he did is overrated because did not play in Europe. Which opinion should we trust?


Brazil won 2 Copa Americas (2004 and 2007) and 2 confederations Cup (2005 and 2009) since 2002. They underachieved in 2006 and 2010 wc, but most nt's would be glad to have won those titles in 11 years. Argentina, for instance, has not won anything at senior level since the Copa America in 1993.
Yes, because legends of the past overrating other legends who played in their time is something unheard of... Don't get me wrong, I do think he's one of the best players of all time, but I don't think he's the best ever and I also think his scoring averages are grossly inflated, just like those of others from that era. There's a reason why we don't see huge blowouts quite as often as in the past anymore.
Copa America is an OK competition, I will give you that, but Confederations Cup is a joke and no fan with a drop of knowledge has ever taken it seriously. I know that and you know that.
You're right about Argentina, they're a big joke at this point, especially with the level of talent they always have available.
I think Brazil's dominance came to an end for a number of reasons, one of them being fact that back in the day they were so much technically superior to every other team at every position that they could win in a dominating fashion while displaying an attractive game. Nowadays there are better teams than them in that aspect, while some more are on par with them. They also have been lacking a clear collective identity, with a sad example with Dunga as coach. They do have upcoming talent, though. Let's see what they can do in the future.
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