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Old 06-17-2013, 12:01 PM   #61
lakers_forever
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
TBH, it's pointless discussing who the best player of all time is considering Pele played half a century ago and not even in Europe.

I think it's also unfair how Pele gets regarded as the GOAT. People just assume of it because of the nostalgia and the "urban legends" surrounding him.


^^
Btw, didn't Pele say that Neymar is better than Messi? I think he said this last year lol

Not even in Europe is not an argument. You are usind todays football to judge football in the 60's. Which are those "urban legends" ?

Pele scored 5 goals in the last 2 games of the 1958 wc. Football change a lot in 12 years and he was stilll the best player in the world in 1970. He stopped playing in Brazil in 1974 (and still regarded as the best brazilian player), later in the same year a kid named Zico was named the best brazilian league player. The same Zico who ruled the early to mid 80's with the likes of Maradona and Platini. Romario, Baresi, Matthaus were already great players in the late 80's and still were in the next decade. Great payers will always be great players in any era. It does not matter if someone was great in the 60's or today.

The same in basketball. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the perfect example. He had great battles with a 60's legend like Wilt and dominated in some games against a 90's legends like Olajuwon.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:06 PM   #62
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by lakers_forever
Not even in Europe is not an argument. You are usind todays football to judge football in the 60's. Which are those "urban legends" ?

Pele scored 5 goals in the last 2 games of the 1958 wc. Football change a lot in 12 years and he was stilll the best player in the world in 1970. He stopped playing in Brazil in 1974 (and still regarded as the best brazilian player), later in the same year a kid named Zico was named the best brazilian league player. The same Zico who ruled the early to mid 80's with the likes of Maradona and Platini. Romario, Baresi, Matthaus were already great players in the late 80's and still were in the next decade. Great payers will always be great players in any era. It does not matter if someone was great in the 60's or today.

The same in basketball. Kareem Abdul Jabbar is the perfect example. He had great battles with a 60's legend like Wilt and dominated in some games against a 90's legends like Olajuwon.

Don't use the NBA as an example as the NBA has one league where it's more definite to "crown" the GOAT instead of football where there's many different leagues, competitions, etc.

BTW, didn't Miroslav Klose break Pele's record for goals in a WC? Or was it Podolski?
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:09 PM   #63
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by LilKateMoss
Yes, because legends of the past overrating other legends who played in their time is something unheard of... Don't get me wrong, I do think he's one of the best players of all time, but I don't think he's the best ever and I also think his scoring averages are grossly inflated, just like those of others from that era. There's a reason why we don't see huge blowouts quite as often as in the past anymore.
Copa America is an OK competition, I will give you that, but Confederations Cup is a joke and no fan with a drop of knowledge has ever taken it seriously. I know that and you know that.
You're right about Argentina, they're a big joke at this point, especially with the level of talent they always have available.
I think Brazil's dominance came to an end for a number of reasons, one of them being fact that back in the day they were so much technically superior to every other team at every position that they could win in a dominating fashion while displaying an attractive game. Nowadays there are better teams than them in that aspect, while some more are on par with them. They also have been lacking a clear collective identity, with a sad example with Dunga as coach. They do have upcoming talent, though. Let's see what they can do in the future.

That's fair enough. Your previous post seemed like you did not rate him at all.

Cc Cup is not taken that seriously by fans overall. But when the game is on, teams play it for real.

I agree about Brazil. Also, 2010 and this generation maybe the worst in terms of offensive players. Only Neymar is that great of a prospect. You don't have a Pele, a Zico, or even players close to recent stars like Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldo. It maybe the first time ever that the back 4 of Brazil is more impressive than the offensive players.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:11 PM   #64
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickballer
Don't use the NBA as an example as the NBA has one league where it's more definite to "crown" the GOAT instead of football where there's many different leagues, competitions, etc.

BTW, didn't Miroslav Klose break Pele's record for goals in a WC? Or was it Podolski?

It was not an example on to say who's the GOAT, it was to show that great athletes are usually great in any era.

Ronaldo holds the record for most goals scored in multiple WC's (Pele had a better goal average than him though) and Fontaine for most goals scored in a single WC.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #65
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

To me - the old game was more difficult. You have the balls themselves - heavy as lead, the stuff defenders were allowed to do. The modern game is undoubtedly more tactical but that's something any great player will adjust to.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:37 PM   #66
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

I heard somewhere that brazilians consider Garincha as their GOAT


Neymar gonna be exposed in Europe.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

who is this guy? the jiauber of football?

pele has been insecure about messi surpassing him for years now... he never said anything good about him and even said neymar is better last year

maradona on the other hand, is the complete opposite, he doesnt really give a f*ck about rankings, he said before the 2010 world cup that messi is already better than himself.

btw, arsene wenger when asked who is the best player in the world said- messi, then was asked who is the best player of all time, after thinking for 2-3 seconds said messi again. ill take his opinion over anyone's on this board or any insecure 50s/60s stars.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:41 PM   #68
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by irriducibili
I heard somewhere that brazilians consider Garincha as their GOAT


Neymar gonna be exposed in Europe.

Some.

They also unanimously say he was better than Maradona

Brazilians are crazy when it comes to this thing called football - they will tell you some of the most ridiculous thing's you'll ever hear.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:39 PM   #69
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by irriducibili
I heard somewhere that brazilians consider Garincha as their GOAT

No. False urban legend created by british journalist Alex Bellos. Only a really smal minority of fans (mainly radical Botafogo fans - Garrincha's team -) might think so. I've heard and read many famous brazilian journalists and former players and only Garrincha's biographer thinks he is the GOAT. Gerson, the great playmaker from the 1970 team wc team, said the same as well when he was pissed at Pele because the later did not put him in his list of best players ever. But he has made peace with Pele and recently stated he was indeed the gretest.

Last edited by lakers_forever : 06-17-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:47 PM   #70
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by alenleomessi
who is this guy? the jiauber of football?

pele has been insecure about messi surpassing him for years now... he never said anything good about him and even said neymar is better last year

maradona on the other hand, is the complete opposite, he doesnt really give a f*ck about rankings, he said before the 2010 world cup that messi is already better than himself.

btw, arsene wenger when asked who is the best player in the world said- messi, then was asked who is the best player of all time, after thinking for 2-3 seconds said messi again. ill take his opinion over anyone's on this board or any insecure 50s/60s stars.

They are insecure because they think Pele was the greatest? Maybe it's just their sincere opinion. Why does Wenger opinion means more than say, Alex Ferguson who rate Pele as the best ever?

Maradona did say that when he did not feel threatned. Now he knows Messi can surpass him, he changed the tone and said he was better than Messi.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...nel-Messi.html

And Pele said recently that Messi is the best player in the world, that he is better than Ronaldo and that Neymar can surpass him in the future (yep, he corrected the crap he said about Neymar being already better).
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:27 PM   #71
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by lakers_forever
They are insecure because they think Pele was the greatest? Maybe it's just their sincere opinion. Why does Wenger opinion means more than say, Alex Ferguson who rate Pele as the best ever?

Maradona did say that when he did not feel threatned. Now he knows Messi can surpass him, he changed the tone and said he was better than Messi.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...nel-Messi.html

And Pele said recently that Messi is the best player in the world, that he is better than Ronaldo and that Neymar can surpass him in the future (yep, he corrected the crap he said about Neymar being already better).
maybe because wenger is one of the greatest talent evaluators and a football genius?


and bolded just proves my point - they are insecure and full of shit



one WC, and we are not going to have this conversation anymore. but of course there will always be kids like nickyoung who will mention that word 'HGH'
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:29 PM   #72
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

my god, tahiti are so bad... how did they get here?
what the hell are they gonna do against spain.. whats the record for most goals in a big tournament (wc, euros, copa, conf.cup) ?
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:06 PM   #73
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by alenleomessi
my god, tahiti are so bad... how did they get here?
what the hell are they gonna do against spain.. whats the record for most goals in a big tournament (wc, euros, copa, conf.cup) ?

I remember Argentina defeating serbia 6-0 in the 2006 WC
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:10 PM   #74
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

Goalllllll
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:19 PM   #75
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Default Re: FIFA Confederations Cup, Brazil 2013

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Originally Posted by knickballer
I remember Argentina defeating serbia 6-0 in the 2006 WC
yeah and germany beat saudi arabia in 8-0 in 2002...
after doing some research it looks like this tahitian team is made of lawyers, accountants, delivery men... only one professional player vahirua who played for monaco recently

Coach Eddya Etaeta: "Our goal is not to beat Nigeria, but to go home and find a job for those who have none." Players hope for a commitment to a foreign club - the Confed Cup is for a good stage.

props for them
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