Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > New York Knicks Forum

New York Knicks Forum New York Knicks forum - NY Knicks message board

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-03-2013, 02:02 AM   #151
Clutch
NBA Legend
 
Clutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MSG
Posts: 16,428
Clutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
This isn't the convo for you, you know you didn't watch the game back then.

Once you called Hibbert undersized, your argument is toast.
When did I call him undersized ? I didn't say guys from the 90's were bigger than him. I said 90's guys were bigger than the guys that are defending him right now. It doesn't get much smaller than a 6'8 guy defending 7'2 280 lbs center.
That's a huge difference.
I'm not an idiot to say Hibbert would be undersized. You can't be undersized at 7'2 and 280 lbs. Unless you're playing against team full of Yao Ming clones
My quote "Guys were bigger and better back then" was refering to centers he's playing against right now.

Also I didn't watch the games live but I downloaded and watched a ton of old games. I watched a lot of Knicks games,especially series against Pacers and Heat. I watched some games of Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Not to mention Jordan and the Bulls. Even though it's not the 90's I watched Shaq in early 00's.

So yeah,I surely didn't watch as many games as you did but let's not act like I haven't watch a 90's game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
actually hibbert would be bigger than a lot of centers back in any era. He is bigger than Hakeem, Ewing, and Mourning just an fyi

i dont even understand the argument about Hibbert anyways... Bash Chandler blah blah, Hibbert mediocre blah blah,

Franchise you dont want to get your C involved in the offense in any capacity. You dont see the point of it? Come on. You know basketball and you know that no C is going to give you effort on one in of the floor if he aint touching the pill at the other.

How are we going to involve him in offense ? If opponents shut down lob passes from Felton (which good defenses can certainly do) then he's basically no threat to score at all aside from putbacks.
If he develops some sort of post game or outside shot then we can talk about it,right now he's useless on offense unless there's someone who'll spoon feed him.

Last edited by Clutch : 06-03-2013 at 02:14 AM.
Clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 07:40 AM   #152
knickscity
Knicks Board Moderator
 
knickscity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home of BullyBall!!!!
Posts: 9,311
knickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
When did I call him undersized ? I didn't say guys from the 90's were bigger than him. I said 90's guys were bigger than the guys that are defending him right now. It doesn't get much smaller than a 6'8 guy defending 7'2 280 lbs center.
That's a huge difference.
I'm not an idiot to say Hibbert would be undersized. You can't be undersized at 7'2 and 280 lbs. Unless you're playing against team full of Yao Ming clones
My quote "Guys were bigger and better back then" was refering to centers he's playing against right now.

Also I didn't watch the games live but I downloaded and watched a ton of old games. I watched a lot of Knicks games,especially series against Pacers and Heat. I watched some games of Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Not to mention Jordan and the Bulls. Even though it's not the 90's I watched Shaq in early 00's.

So yeah,I surely didn't watch as many games as you did but let's not act like I haven't watch a 90's game.



How are we going to involve him in offense ? If opponents shut down lob passes from Felton (which good defenses can certainly do) then he's basically no threat to score at all aside from putbacks.
If he develops some sort of post game or outside shot then we can talk about it,right now he's useless on offense unless there's someone who'll spoon feed him.
Clutch, drop the convo, the majority of the 90's centers werent 7 feet either.

Dream was at best 6-11...that's dwight's height.

Mourning was 6-10.

Ewing was 7 feet 240 and primarily a jump shooter.

Even one of the greatest back in the day been Russel was 6-9.

Hibbert would see Shaq 4 years a year...thats all, and even Yao could score on him.

You couldn't make that statement if you watched the games back then...leave it alone.
knickscity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:00 AM   #153
Clutch
NBA Legend
 
Clutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MSG
Posts: 16,428
Clutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
Clutch, drop the convo, the majority of the 90's centers werent 7 feet either.

Dream was at best 6-11...that's dwight's height.

Mourning was 6-10.

Ewing was 7 feet 240 and primarily a jump shooter.

Even one of the greatest back in the day been Russel was 6-9.

Hibbert would see Shaq 4 years a year...thats all, and even Yao could score on him.

You couldn't make that statement if you watched the games back then...leave it alone.
Come on man. 6'11 is still much bigger than 6'8 and most of them were good or great defenders.

Do you think Hibbert would average anything close to 23/11 against Ewing/Hakeem/Mourning ?
Those were great centers. Hibbert isn't even close to their level thus he would be mediocre.
Clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:22 AM   #154
knickscity
Knicks Board Moderator
 
knickscity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home of BullyBall!!!!
Posts: 9,311
knickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
Come on man. 6'11 is still much bigger than 6'8 and most of them were good or great defenders.

Do you think Hibbert would average anything close to 23/11 against Ewing/Hakeem/Mourning ?
Those were great centers. Hibbert isn't even close to their level thus he would be mediocre.
In what world is the level below great equals mediocre?

Hibbert would have good games in any era, he's a good center.

He wouldn't be playing those guys every single game.

The 90's had a handful of great centers( d rob, dream, Ewing, shaq) a few good ones (mourning mutumbo, some serviceable (smits).

A big guy who can score rebound and block shots would be solid in any era.

Georgetown doesn't pump out garbage.
knickscity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 09:53 AM   #155
franchize
"The Residential Pit"
 
franchize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,714
franchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterfranchize is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

One could make the argument that Hibbert wouldn't be as good because Ewing, Mourning and Mutumbo....especially Mutumbo, worked extensively with him, to help him improve his game

But Knickscity is right. Hibbert would be able to compete but he would get destroyed against the better centers of that era. I'm not sure he'd be Indiana's starting center as Rik Smits might have been better than him. Smits was very underrated. (I hated his guts though).

Anyway, can we talk about some Knicks offseason moves?

I think one guy who could REALLY help us is Martell Webster. I'm not sure how much the Wizards plan on offering him, so i don't know if we could acquire him. But if we can, I'd give him our mini mid and address our big man need in the draft.
franchize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:14 AM   #156
knickscity
Knicks Board Moderator
 
knickscity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home of BullyBall!!!!
Posts: 9,311
knickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Idk, that mle is our only available contract that can entice a free agent.

That player has to be a full time contributor.

My draft player is NBA ready BPA regardless of position.
knickscity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 11:54 AM   #157
Clutch
NBA Legend
 
Clutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MSG
Posts: 16,428
Clutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

There's been a lot of talk about Nate Robinson possibly coming back to NY.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/kni...turn-to-knicks

Would you like to have him back ?
Also,if you needed to choose between Nate and J.R.,who would you pick ?
Clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 12:01 PM   #158
Rameek
Krust Kingz
 
Rameek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tokyo from Brooklyn
Posts: 6,957
Rameek is popular on this boardRameek is popular on this boardRameek is popular on this boardRameek is popular on this board
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
How are we going to involve him in offense ? If opponents shut down lob passes from Felton (which good defenses can certainly do) then he's basically no threat to score at all aside from putbacks.
If he develops some sort of post game or outside shot then we can talk about it,right now he's useless on offense unless there's someone who'll spoon feed him.
My point is you can play through him. Let him try to do something on the block it doesnt hurt. Whether you think he can score or has moves or not. The ball should go to him and let him try to score. There isnt wrong with him getting involved. Most Centers that are not absolute 1 dimensional like to feel involved offensively and they play better on the other end.

For ex. This is why Gortat wanted out of Phoenix.

This is why the team was in support of Lin last year and the offense besides 2 players if I remember correctly.

Last edited by Rameek : 06-03-2013 at 12:04 PM.
Rameek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 12:51 PM   #159
knickscity
Knicks Board Moderator
 
knickscity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home of BullyBall!!!!
Posts: 9,311
knickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
My point is you can play through him. Let him try to do something on the block it doesnt hurt. Whether you think he can score or has moves or not. The ball should go to him and let him try to score. There isnt wrong with him getting involved. Most Centers that are not absolute 1 dimensional like to feel involved offensively and they play better on the other end.

For ex. This is why Gortat wanted out of Phoenix.

This is why the team was in support of Lin last year and the offense besides 2 players if I remember correctly.
Dwight screams for the ball, and he doesn't have much related to offense and he's trained through ewing and dream, but he deserbes some touches, and not lob, but actual touches where he can post up, put it on the floor, make a move.

Tyson did ironically shoot right around 50% on the few jumpers he took so something is there.

if anyone doesn't believe, look at his shot chart...

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2199
knickscity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 12:59 PM   #160
Clutch
NBA Legend
 
Clutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MSG
Posts: 16,428
Clutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

He's 7-17,that's 41% with him being wide open and having all time in the world to shoot it.

Guy has no offensive game and most probably won't develop one.
He can't shoot. He can't play in the post. Only thing he can do on offense is set screens and grab rebounds (or to be more precise tip it out or put it back in the basket,he almost never catches it).

Let's give him touches in the post. I'm fine with that. But what when we realize that he can't do anything with the ball. Continue to feed him and waste possessions ?

We signed him specifically to defend and rebound. If he's not going to do that then he doesn't deserve any touches at all,especially because I'm a better offensive player than he is.
Clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 01:16 PM   #161
Rameek
Krust Kingz
 
Rameek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tokyo from Brooklyn
Posts: 6,957
Rameek is popular on this boardRameek is popular on this boardRameek is popular on this boardRameek is popular on this board
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
He's 7-17,that's 41% with him being wide open and having all time in the world to shoot it.

Guy has no offensive game and most probably won't develop one.
He can't shoot. He can't play in the post. Only thing he can do on offense is set screens and grab rebounds (or to be more precise tip it out or put it back in the basket,he almost never catches it).

Let's give him touches in the post. I'm fine with that. But what when we realize that he can't do anything with the ball. Continue to feed him and waste possessions ?

We signed him specifically to defend and rebound. If he's not going to do that then he doesn't deserve any touches at all,especially because I'm a better offensive player than he is.
How can you determine what he was signed for?

Understand this whether you accept it or not or whether you agree with it or not....

No center worth their salt is going to play one side of the floor.

There are no such things as wasted possessions. He isnt going to shoot 30 times in a game.

I just dont think you or franchise can think objectively about Tyson. You have it in for him so anything that happens its going to be a negative. I dont even understand how I keep falling back into this trap.


You're on you're own. I'll be on the sidelines.

Last edited by Rameek : 06-03-2013 at 01:30 PM.
Rameek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 01:29 PM   #162
Clutch
NBA Legend
 
Clutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MSG
Posts: 16,428
Clutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
How can you determine what he was signed for?

Understand this whether you accept it or not or whether you agree with it or not....

No center worth their salt is going to play one side of the floor.

There are no such things as wasted possessions. He isnt going to shoot 30 times in a game.

I just dont think you or franchise can think objectively about Tyson. You have it in for him so anything that happens its going to be a negative. I dont even understand how I keep falling back into this trap.
Of course there are wasted possessions. If you purposely decide to run a play that works 20% of the time and it fails instead of a play that works 50% of the time then it's simply a wasted possession.

And stop with the "I don't know why we signed Tyson".
I KNOW. YOU KNOW. WE ALL KNOW

We signed him because of his defense,rebounding and leadership. Grunwald didn't sign him because of his offense and anyone who watches basketball knows he can only make dunks/layups when someone spoon feeds him.

What are we supposed to do ? Give him 10 post ups/mid range shots a game just to make him happy ? That 14 mil. contract wasn't enough ???
He got a shitload of money just to play defense and rebound. With how he played not that he should get more touches on offense but he should be happy he's even on the floor.

Tyson is here to defend and rebound. If he does that then reward him on offense. BUT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

I can't believe what I'm reading. Tyson played like complete scrub in the playoffs for 2 years in a row and got dominated in every single matchup over the years (Bosh last season,KG and Hibbert this season). And now instead of criticizing him people want to give him more touches on offense
What's wrong with you people ??? We need to get rid of that bum,not give him an even bigger role that he sucks even more at.

Last edited by Clutch : 06-03-2013 at 01:32 PM.
Clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 01:32 PM   #163
knickscity
Knicks Board Moderator
 
knickscity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home of BullyBall!!!!
Posts: 9,311
knickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

BTW Jason Kidd has retired.

Howard Beck ‏@HowardBeckNYT now

Knicks announce, via Twitter, that Jason Kidd has retired.
Expand
knickscity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 01:34 PM   #164
Clutch
NBA Legend
 
Clutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MSG
Posts: 16,428
Clutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableClutch is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
BTW Jason Kidd has retired.

Howard Beck ‏@HowardBeckNYT now

Knicks announce, via Twitter, that Jason Kidd has retired.
Expand
Clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 01:35 PM   #165
knickscity
Knicks Board Moderator
 
knickscity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Home of BullyBall!!!!
Posts: 9,311
knickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableknickscity is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: So what moves can be made?

if he didn't quit, his money still counts towards the cap though.
knickscity is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:08 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy