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Old 07-18-2014, 11:03 PM   #751
el gringos
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek


Adding Josh Smith, Larry Sanders, Mayo, Ersan, doesnt make this team significantly better. Josh Smith nor Larry Sanders arent worth the money they are making and the years they have left on the contract. Adding them and taking up unnecessary cap space that hinders your opportunity (not guarantee) for real tangible talent or just to be able to make future moves. Adding them does not propel the team into championship status so its just not worth it.

Its that same stupid rationale that got the Knicks stuck with a guy like Stat.

You have no concept or firm grasp on the reality of the NBA and how it should be cyclical. Even the Lakers the 2nd biggest market went through a couple of rebuilding phases with Kobe there. They put themselves in position to have assets and flexibility.

I am not opposed to trading Stat or Bargs for a difference maker or quality pieces but not at the expense of flexibility or wasted cap space.

Smith or sanders over Amare would make them significantly better



I'm wanting to come over to your side that it would be better to wait for free agency but think to get one of the best guys I'll always believe you have to trade for them. I can't see why you won't actually know who you want and talk about how realistic that specific player is to get.


love
Gasol
Dragic


I think you'd have to trade for any of those 3 (maybe Dragic walks for absolute max).


Isn't love out of the running once he gets traded? Could you see him going to gs or Cleveland and then moving on the next year?


So the entire goal is to hope Memphis is too cheap to give gasol a max deal and in the process probably have to renounce shun-pert, bargnani, and Jason smith, possibly JR for the slight chance he comes?


How do you not see that your plan is a bigger gamble and you waste season(s) not trying to win? I think it's because in theory your plan is better and it lasts forever. You can move from 15 to 16 to 17 and on




Who are the right players that could make it worth it to lose the dream of capspace? How do you get them now and avoid wasting another season, especially when the east is so wide open. Because maybe you're right and it's not sanders and illyasoca or maybe it's not josh smith. But if you're going to say it's not those guys you have to say who it should be
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:37 AM   #752
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
Smith or sanders over Amare would make them significantly better



I'm wanting to come over to your side that it would be better to wait for free agency but think to get one of the best guys I'll always believe you have to trade for them. I can't see why you won't actually know who you want and talk about how realistic that specific player is to get.


love
Gasol
Dragic


I think you'd have to trade for any of those 3 (maybe Dragic walks for absolute max).


Isn't love out of the running once he gets traded? Could you see him going to gs or Cleveland and then moving on the next year?


So the entire goal is to hope Memphis is too cheap to give gasol a max deal and in the process probably have to renounce shun-pert, bargnani, and Jason smith, possibly JR for the slight chance he comes?


How do you not see that your plan is a bigger gamble and you waste season(s) not trying to win? I think it's because in theory your plan is better and it lasts forever. You can move from 15 to 16 to 17 and on




Who are the right players that could make it worth it to lose the dream of capspace? How do you get them now and avoid wasting another season, especially when the east is so wide open. Because maybe you're right and it's not sanders and illyasoca or maybe it's not josh smith. But if you're going to say it's not those guys you have to say who it should be
If Smith or Sanders or Ersan or Mayo doesnt automatically make you a championship contender then they are not worth it. You take away the opportunity to add or trade for some other player(s) that gets you way closer to that goal.

This is what I mean by Knicks past taking on those type of players and bitch later why they cant get rid of them or the team stays mediocre or losing.

Your idea is a terrible gamble.
By adding these players are these the missing pieces that makes this team a championship contender? So are they worth staying in the punitive luxury tax?

Sanders 4 years 11 mill per
Josh 3 years 13.5 mill per
Ersan 3 years 16.something total
Mayo 2 years 8 mill per

We have 2 expirers that nobody wants... You think any of the above players have value to winning teams? No not at all. But you add them to the Knicks roster and we have no room to make moves.

My gamble is to get out of luxury tax purgatory and saving picks to become players in the market for quality players that can push the team into contention. Look at the situation now we have nothing to give to acquire Love or Marc Gasol. Thats because the Knicks dont have talent, nor cap space nor picks to make moves.

I dont have players in mind right now nor do I have a wish list because the Knicks dont have the players or picks or cap space to make a move for those players.

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Old 07-21-2014, 03:46 PM   #753
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

What about a simple move like

Lakers- Brandon Jennings, delfino

Pistons- Amare

Bucks- Nash, dalembert, Ellington, jerebko (all expirers) + Hardaway, Larkin, thanasis


Knicks- singler, mayo, sanders, illyasova, smith



Calderon/shumpert/prigioni/s brown/murry
Jr/singler
Carmelo/cleanthony
Sanders/smith/illyasova
Bargnani/smith/Aldrich
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:13 AM   #754
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
What about a simple move like

Lakers- Brandon Jennings, delfino

Pistons- Amare

Bucks- Nash, dalembert, Ellington, jerebko (all expirers) + Hardaway, Larkin, thanasis


Knicks- singler, mayo, sanders, illyasova, smith



Calderon/shumpert/prigioni/s brown/murry
Jr/singler
Carmelo/cleanthony
Sanders/smith/illyasova
Bargnani/smith/Aldrich
I dont want to poo poo your ideas but IMHO if it doesnt make the Knicks a championship contender or close then it's unlikely to happen.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:19 AM   #755
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

I'm really curious if the Knicks should go after Matrix.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:37 AM   #756
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I'm really curious if the Knicks should go after Matrix.
Good question. He's solid, but 36 years old. In my perfect little world, we get as much young talent going as we can this year, as we are in re-build mode. I don't know if I'd rather have Metta as a defense-stopper first. I don't want them to get reliant on someone like Marion, who can obviously put up shots. But I've said it before - I finally have some faith in the FO, so I'll roll with whatever they present this season.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:57 PM   #757
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Matrix the better player now. Could be the backup sf everybody is all worried about. Mwp knows the system and fisher/Phil already.


A min wage Marion signing would be ridiculous but don't see how someone doesn't give him 3-4 or so somewhere else.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:28 PM   #758
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovegittar
Good question. He's solid, but 36 years old. In my perfect little world, we get as much young talent going as we can this year, as we are in re-build mode. I don't know if I'd rather have Metta as a defense-stopper first. I don't want them to get reliant on someone like Marion, who can obviously put up shots. But I've said it before - I finally have some faith in the FO, so I'll roll with whatever they present this season.
The Knicks dont have a young PF... There is no future PF on this team. So he wouldnt be holding anyone back. I'd rather have Matrix than Metta give me sane than insane any day.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:38 PM   #759
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I'm really curious if the Knicks should go after Matrix.
I may have missed some pertinent information, but the Knicks have no possible way to sign Marion.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:43 PM   #760
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

I was just in the Nets forum (man, is that depressing) and got this idea...

Amare/Shumpert
for
DWill/Plumlee

DWill's contract.. sucks. But that's why Plumlee is added to the deal. He's a good young player.

Calderon/Williams/Prigs
Williams/JR/Hardaway JR
Melo/JR/Ellington
Plums/Bargs
Dal/Plums/Bargs

I really like 1-4. Williams contract does suck, but at least he's a second "star" to pair with Melo. Because, let's face it, NYKs cap situation will suck until Melo's deal is over.

Could then try to flip Bargs + Hardaway JR (the bait) for something useful... Larry Sanders and a first? Greg Monroe (Knicks would have to add two future second round picks)?

Those deals would leave the Knicks with...

Calderon/Williams/Prigs
Williams/JR/
Melo/JR/Ellington
Plums/Sanders
Sanders/Dal/Plums

or

Calderon/Williams/Prigs
Williams/JR/Hardaway JR
Melo/JR/Ellington
Monroe/Plums
Plums/Dal
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:15 PM   #761
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

I will say I am totally dumbfounded and disappointed. I assumed Zen had a couple of trades in the bag to convince Melo to stay but if it was only contract options that would suck. How could Melo resign with this team going into the season with this roster?

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
August 25. When Larkin, Ellington, dalembert can be in a trade package.

I know there is time but if any of these guys are part of the package then so be it. I like the one move he made on draft day which was a no brainer and probably initiated by Dallas. Something has to change before now and opening day.
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Old 07-25-2014, 03:55 PM   #762
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I will say I am totally dumbfounded and disappointed. I assumed Zen had a couple of trades in the bag to convince Melo to stay but if it was only contract options that would suck. How could Melo resign with this team going into the season with this roster?



I know there is time but if any of these guys are part of the package then so be it. I like the one move he made on draft day which was a no brainer and probably initiated by Dallas. Something has to change before now and opening day.

I know how you feel but it is crucial to realize it's a long term re-build. We have a decent roster; I want to see if we can groom some of these dudes in the new system. Melo knows it's gonna take 2 years (at the very least). If we can get Hardaway, Shumpert, Larkin and Early to their next "levels", we will have a solid core to add at least 2 free agents to. With diligence, we will be a well-oiled machine by 2016. This is what I'm hoping for... it's a bit like the Spur's philosophy. We will never be a "superteam"... we need to have 5 guys playing as one on the floor. Yeah, I could be wrong here, but this is what I believe is coming to fruition. Knick fans are gonna have to be patient.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:47 PM   #763
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovegittar
I know how you feel but it is crucial to realize it's a long term re-build. We have a decent roster; I want to see if we can groom some of these dudes in the new system. Melo knows it's gonna take 2 years (at the very least). If we can get Hardaway, Shumpert, Larkin and Early to their next "levels", we will have a solid core to add at least 2 free agents to. With diligence, we will be a well-oiled machine by 2016. This is what I'm hoping for... it's a bit like the Spur's philosophy. We will never be a "superteam"... we need to have 5 guys playing as one on the floor. Yeah, I could be wrong here, but this is what I believe is coming to fruition. Knick fans are gonna have to be patient.

Unfortunately this is still a below avg roster (think about it none of our starters sans Melo could start on a majority of other NBA teams). It will take a great system to make this team competitive. Hopefully the Triangle can maximize their talents and Fish can coach them up.
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Old 07-28-2014, 06:33 PM   #764
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Might or might not be another big trade.


About that trade exemption: I would love to see shved from Minnesota brought in. His salary is 3.2 for 1 season, and the twolves just signed no Williams to backup Rubio. Maybe shved is the odd man out?


If Knicks get love I hope shved is included
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:19 PM   #765
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Default Re: So what moves can be made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kshutts1
I was just in the Nets forum (man, is that depressing) and got this idea...

Amare/Shumpert
for
DWill/Plumlee

DWill's contract.. sucks. But that's why Plumlee is added to the deal. He's a good young player.

Calderon/Williams/Prigs
Williams/JR/Hardaway JR
Melo/JR/Ellington
Plums/Bargs
Dal/Plums/Bargs

I really like 1-4. Williams contract does suck, but at least he's a second "star" to pair with Melo. Because, let's face it, NYKs cap situation will suck until Melo's deal is over.

Could then try to flip Bargs + Hardaway JR (the bait) for something useful... Larry Sanders and a first? Greg Monroe (Knicks would have to add two future second round picks)?

Those deals would leave the Knicks with...

Calderon/Williams/Prigs
Williams/JR/
Melo/JR/Ellington
Plums/Sanders
Sanders/Dal/Plums

or

Calderon/Williams/Prigs
Williams/JR/Hardaway JR
Melo/JR/Ellington
Monroe/Plums
Plums/Dal

DWill has been hurt for three years. He has three years at max money, the large max. You can't trade for him. He just came off surgery on both ankles.
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