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Old 05-25-2013, 12:13 AM   #31
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowe
Both of them are approaching 30, have kids, etc. They are who they are.

Maturity is never going to be one of their strong suits.

I forgot Vander Blue declared, but he'd be a perfect fit in that early 2nd round range or even justify a reach for him at 24. If Kidd retires, he is insurance as a big PG/SG who can play some defense. But a season with Kidd's teaching will definetly help him.
That's what I hoped for shumpert too but he seemed to be watching Carmelo and jr than he was Kidd and Prigioni, and Felton while he was hurt.
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Old 05-25-2013, 12:31 AM   #32
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Shumpert, chandler, Felton, j white
For
Pick 5, frye, s brown, j Dudley, Beasley

What would you say? What if dragic and pick 5
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:52 AM   #33
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
Shumpert, chandler, Felton, j white
For
Pick 5, frye, s brown, j Dudley, Beasley

What would you say? What if dragic and pick 5
No thanks. We lose a point guard and don't get one back. We lose a center and don't get one back. Also we lose Shumpert and don't get anyone with his potential in return.
I don't know who we could draft with #5 pick but that's always a lottery. You can't possibly know what you're going to get.
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Old 05-25-2013, 03:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clutch
No thanks. We lose a point guard and don't get one back. We lose a center and don't get one back. Also we lose Shumpert and don't get anyone with his potential in return.
I don't know who we could draft with #5 pick but that's always a lottery. You can't possibly know what you're going to get.
Dragic, pick 5 (Olynyk), frye, s brown
For
Shumpert, chandler, Felton
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Old 05-25-2013, 05:36 PM   #35
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
Dragic, pick 5 (Olynyk), frye, s brown
For
Shumpert, chandler, Felton
Do you guys think Frye will play again?
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Old 05-25-2013, 09:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by el gringos
Dragic, pick 5 (Olynyk), frye, s brown
For
Shumpert, chandler, Felton


Give us Dragic, Gortat, 30th pick, Brown and one of the Morris guys
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Old 05-26-2013, 08:34 AM   #37
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Default Re: Draft Thread

No team is going to trade anything within the top 7 of the draft for anything on the Knicks.

Gorgui Dieng is going to be a non-factor in the NBA. Does not have a NBA ready skill, all his positives are based on athletic ability, and despite being in college three years has no skills on the offensive end though he is a better/more willing passer than he gets credit for being.

If the Knicks had more quality on the depth chart they could take a flier on Dieng in the first. With Chandler being the only quality big guy the team will definitely get back they can't take risk with the first round pick they have.

They need to draft a perimeter guy that can be top 7 rotation by the all star break or an interior guy that be an effective guy off the bench when the playoffs start.
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Old 05-26-2013, 11:12 AM   #38
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Default Re: Draft Thread

I think some of you overvalue Knick players...

The Knicks could have made a good play for Gortat Beasley because they were so unhappy. Who knows what Jeff Hornacek plans are if he becomes the next coach.

I would trade almost any player on this roster to get Dragic Gortat... Even if that meant taking Beasley. I would take Frye as well but I think there are only a couple of scenarios where the Knicks would get the salary relief.

If the Suns would take the package of Felton, Shump, Chandler for Dragic, Gortat, Beasley I'm all for it. Now I would hesitate only if this would require the Knicks giving up a pick.

The Kevin Love scenario intrigues me the most but that could only happen if he requested and demanded a trade to the Knicks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
No team is going to trade anything within the top 7 of the draft for anything on the Knicks.

Gorgui Dieng is going to be a non-factor in the NBA. Does not have a NBA ready skill, all his positives are based on athletic ability, and despite being in college three years has no skills on the offensive end though he is a better/more willing passer than he gets credit for being.

If the Knicks had more quality on the depth chart they could take a flier on Dieng in the first. With Chandler being the only quality big guy the team will definitely get back they can't take risk with the first round pick they have.

They need to draft a perimeter guy that can be top 7 rotation by the all star break or an interior guy that be an effective guy off the bench when the playoffs start.

I think the Knicks should take the best player available but in no way do I want them targeting a perimeter guy if that makes sense. If they had to target a player by need it better be a front court player.

Last edited by Rameek : 05-26-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 04:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
I think the Knicks should take the best player available but in no way do I want them targeting a perimeter guy if that makes sense. If they had to target a player by need it better be a front court player.
They definitely need Best Player Available but it has to be best available based on real skill and projectable impact, they are not in a position to grab the guy that will be the beat in 4 years if there is a training/development miracle.
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Old 05-26-2013, 07:50 PM   #40
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
One guy that may or may not be available is Jamaal Franklin. His game is very similar to Kawhi Leonard. He went to the same school. His projection is all over the place. Some think he'll go as high as 12. Some have him going 30th.

I'm personally not a big Jamaal Franklin guy. He's a guy that can't shoot long range and is kinda ball dominant. Just what we don't need on a team with Carmelo, Felton, and Amare in my opinion.

I disagree with the above post on Dieng. At our position in the draft, realistically, we're not going to get a guy who's going to be a stud especially in this draft. Dieng is a rim protector with good rotations and with a pretty sweet jumper. Yea, he's never going to be a guy we can dump the ball into but he can shoot the midrange and will probably be able to give some good minutes - like a poor man's Ibaka.

If we can buy a first round pick, I say we also consider taking a flier on Steven Adams from Pittsburgh. He's raw as hell but apparently he's tested off the charts and has been killing it in workouts. There's no back to the basket guys here so trying out a guy with supreme athleticism and size is something I'd be very happy about. Apparently he's also showed much more game than he did in college.

Last edited by Snoop_Cat : 05-26-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:10 PM   #41
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
I disagree with the above post on Dieng. At our position in the draft, realistically, we're not going to get a guy who's going to be a stud especially in this draft. Dieng is a rim protector with good rotations and with a pretty sweet jumper. Yea, he's never going to be a guy we can dump the ball into but he can shoot the midrange and will probably be able to give some good minutes - like a poor man's Ibaka.
I just don't see Dieng being very productive. He's going to be selected in a range where you expect to get a long term rotation big. These guys usually have one or two NBA ready skills to go with their weaknesses. What does Dieng do to stay on the floor? Plus he's older than the guy everyone wants to say he compares well to, Serge Ibaka (who I like though I think he's a bit over-rated). I really think grabbing Dieng will be a mistake.

Hopefully he can prove me wrong and have a long productive career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
If we can buy a first round pick, I say we also consider taking a flier on Steven Adams from Pittsburgh. He's raw as hell but apparently he's tested off the charts and has been killing it in workouts. There's no back to the basket guys here so trying out a guy with supreme athleticism and size is something I'd be very happy about. Apparently he's also showed much more game than he did in college.
If no one makes a move with the Hawks then the Knicks have an outside chance at Adams, but it isn't a good one. Guys like Adams that are young with potential on both ends of the floor don't usually last to the mid 20s.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:28 PM   #42
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da KO King
I just don't see Dieng being very productive. He's going to be selected in a range where you expect to get a long term rotation big. These guys usually have one or two NBA ready skills to go with their weaknesses. What does Dieng do to stay on the floor? Plus he's older than the guy everyone wants to say he compares well to, Serge Ibaka (who I like though I think he's a bit over-rated). I really think grabbing Dieng will be a mistake.

Hopefully he can prove me wrong and have a long productive career.

If no one makes a move with the Hawks then the Knicks have an outside chance at Adams, but it isn't a good one. Guys like Adams that are young with potential on both ends of the floor don't usually last to the mid 20s.

That's true about Steven Adams, we'll just have to see haha.

Regarding Dieng though, I personally he brings a lot to the table. He can't post up for sh*t but none of our bigs can so it's not like it'd be a downgrade there.

The reason I like Dieng so much is because I think he fits in perfectly with the Knicks. For one, he's a money jump shooter - considering Melo frequents the post, it's good that Dieng won't clog up the paint. He can't do much else, but then again, compared to Chandler and Martin, he probably fits us better offensively. Actually, although his post game sucks, he's great at kicking it out to shooters which suits us great.

Secondly, he's a very good defender. He's got great size and length, and from what I've seen, he's become a very good perimeter defender from Louisville's crazy ass press defense. On a team with pretty weird switches and schemes like the Knicks have shown, a big guy who can move outside on defense and guard the pick and roll is a pretty big commodity. He's also a great help defender and though he's kind of on the lean side, it's not like there's a ton of post up players in the Eastern Conference to match up with anyways.

I personally don't see the big deal with his age as well. He's not going to improve that much, but he's a solid player with whom you know what you're going to get. By the time he's 33/34, you'll get 10 solid years or so out of him and I think he'd be the perfect first big off the bench for us that could play a lot of minutes.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Steven Adams is a top 10 player in the draft class and the perfect knick

That's why I hate those mock draft sites always being so terrible. Of course he was never going at 25 but they had him there or later often. Same with Saric- both will go lottery, prob top 10


Trey Burke, oladipo, porter are the 3 most over rated players. A couple weeks ago they were the 3,4,5 picks and will now "slide" till draft night. Why have them slide? Those are not guys you take in the top 5 or even maybe 10. Don't put them as top 5 picks and they won't have to slide.


The most under rated draft prospects are Olynyk, Adams, Archie Goodwin, mcCollum, and maybe Saric



All boils down to

1- trade in for olynyk or Steven Adams
And/or
2- promise Archie Goodwin now and try to hide him and have a backup plan of a vander blue or Lorenzo brown type.


Archie Goodwin could be an elite level nba point gaurd. Knicks should be working on selling him that idea any getting him to shut it down. Of course I think he is a top 10 player in this draft so maybe he still sees himself going lottery.
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:30 AM   #44
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Default Re: Draft Thread

I could not disagree with you more about Victor Oladipo. He belongs in the top 5/10. He has a high "ceiling" and an elevated "floor." If he stops being the hard worker he has been through HS and college you get a Tony Allen level player; if Victor continues to be the worker he is then you're getting Dwyane Wade clone. The midpoint between the two is a Michael Finley.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #45
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Default Re: Draft Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoop_Cat
That's true about Steven Adams, we'll just have to see haha.

Regarding Dieng though, I personally he brings a lot to the table. He can't post up for sh*t but none of our bigs can so it's not like it'd be a downgrade there.

The reason I like Dieng so much is because I think he fits in perfectly with the Knicks. For one, he's a money jump shooter - considering Melo frequents the post, it's good that Dieng won't clog up the paint. He can't do much else, but then again, compared to Chandler and Martin, he probably fits us better offensively. Actually, although his post game sucks, he's great at kicking it out to shooters which suits us great.

Secondly, he's a very good defender. He's got great size and length, and from what I've seen, he's become a very good perimeter defender from Louisville's crazy ass press defense. On a team with pretty weird switches and schemes like the Knicks have shown, a big guy who can move outside on defense and guard the pick and roll is a pretty big commodity. He's also a great help defender and though he's kind of on the lean side, it's not like there's a ton of post up players in the Eastern Conference to match up with anyways.

I personally don't see the big deal with his age as well. He's not going to improve that much, but he's a solid player with whom you know what you're going to get. By the time he's 33/34, you'll get 10 solid years or so out of him and I think he'd be the perfect first big off the bench for us that could play a lot of minutes.

I can respect it.

My only issue is the age factor because are we really getting a finished product who will be 24 as a rookie?

I'd love to get a big man who we can groom behind Amare and Chandler because realistically with both of their injury histories and wear and tear of 11/12 seasons we have to have someone ready for the future. A Steven Adams type or even the French kid Rudy Gobert with the 4th highest standing reach ever recorded open the door to let a young big sit behind them for 2 seasons and then we see what to do with Amare and Chandler as they'd be Free Agents.

Dieng is an old rookie who may or may not get rotation minutes with Woody in charge and the possibility & likelihood he plays a healthy Camby and K-Mart over him off the bench. Your 5th big only matters for garbage time, and since we play small we don't ever go that deep since Melo shifts to the 4. He'd be an old rookie collecting dust on a veteran team and I don't think he's the type to develop by not playing any minutes unlike a 18 or 19 year old coming into this situation.
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