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Old 05-23-2013, 06:03 PM   #16
Lebowsky
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

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Originally Posted by joe
There is no social security trust fund Nucka. And I'm sure their estimates over the next 75 years include 1% or less inflation, no rise in the interest payments on our debt, no recessions, and steady economic growth. In other words.. assumptions that aren't going to occur.
I don't know about that specific instance, because I haven't read it, but a good econometric projection is calculated for a wide array of different scenarios, not only fair weather. I do it for a living.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

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Originally Posted by joe
Most government studies concerning finance/the economy contain those assumptions.

it looks like you are the one making assumptions
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

The only way you can fix social security is to transform it into a strictly private funds system...
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

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People tend to think of their Social Security benefits as an actual account, in their name, which contains cash or investments. In reality, the Social Security trust fund contains nothing more than IOUs that have no value beyond a promise to impose higher taxes on future workers. The annual surpluses that many thought were being used to build up a reserve for Baby Boomers have been spent on other government programs or to reduce government debt.

http://www.uschamber.com/issues/reti...rust-fund-myth
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security


able to find any sources other than a business lobbyist group?

Last edited by Nanners : 05-23-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:24 PM   #21
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
I don't know about that specific instance, because I haven't read it, but a good econometric projection is calculated for a wide array of different scenarios, not only fair weather. I do it for a living.

I'm sure you're right, but the US government is not interested in making good econometric projections, they're interested in making themselves look good. The studies and the statistics are slanted towards that goal. Does something accurate come out of their lips every now and again? Maybe- that's why I used the phrase "I'm sure.." It's usually not smart to speak in absolutes, but I feel comfortable saying most of their forecasting contain rosy economic assumptions. Low inflation, consistent growth, no or little rise on interest on national debt, etc.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
able to find any sources other than a business lobbyist group?

Sure, this is from a Republican site but I think they make a very keen observation.
Quote:
Here’s how President Barack Obama answered CBS’s Scott Pelley’s question about whether he could guarantee that Social Security checks would go out on August 3, the day after the government is supposed to reach its debt limit: “I cannot guarantee that those checks [he included veterans and the disabled, in addition to Social Security] go out on August 3rd if we haven’t resolved this issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it.”

And Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner echoed the president on CBS’s Face the Nation Sunday implying that if a budget deal isn’t reached by August 2, seniors might not get their Social Security checks.

If there was a social security trust fund, us reaching an agreement about the debt limit should have no bearing on making the payments.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

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Originally Posted by StocktonFan
Currently, once an individual becomes a US citizen, they have the right to social services such as social security. It does not matter if they've worked here for a year or had a work visa and had worked here for 20 years.


You can't propose a solution when you have no idea how the system works.

If you're born after 1929, you have to have amassed 40 work credits (equivalent to 10 years employment) before you become eligible for Social Security benefits. And how much you earned while employed plays heavily into the calculation of how what your benefits will be.

It's the law. It's pretty simple to find. Probably take less time than it took you to type up your completely uninformed post.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10035.pdf
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
Sure, this is from a Republican site but I think they make a very keen observation.


If there was a social security trust fund, us reaching an agreement about the debt limit should have no bearing on making the payments.

The reason there is "no money in the coffers" is not because a trust fund doesnt exist, but rather because the govt has been borrowing from the social security trust fund to pay for other things like business subsidies and endless wars.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

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Originally Posted by Nanners
The reason there is "no money in the coffers" is not because a trust fund doesnt exist, but rather because the govt has been borrowing from the social security trust fund to pay for other things like business subsidies and endless wars.

So you're saying the trust fund exists, but it's empty? What's the difference?

It's like your parents having a college fund for you, but they keep emptying the jar every time they get behind on bills. No? How could you trust that fund..
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
So you're saying the trust fund exists, but it's empty? What's the difference?

It's like your parents having a college fund for you, but they keep emptying the jar every time they get behind on bills. No? How could you trust that fund..

You said a social security trust fund "doesnt exist", you were wrong.

If we stop letting the feds raid the fund to pay for their wars and business subsidies, and make the rich pay their fair share (payroll tax cap) the trust fund would be just fine.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:46 PM   #27
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT
You can't propose a solution when you have no idea how the system works.

If you're born after 1929, you have to have amassed 40 work credits (equivalent to 10 years employment) before you become eligible for Social Security benefits. And how much you earned while employed plays heavily into the calculation of how what your benefits will be.

It's the law. It's pretty simple to find. Probably take less time than it took you to type up your completely uninformed post.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10035.pdf

Yeah, it literally took me less than 20 seconds to find the info that refuted his point.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

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Originally Posted by Nanners
You said a social security trust fund "doesnt exist", you were wrong.

If we stop letting the feds raid the fund to pay for their wars and subsidies, make the rich pay their fair share (payroll tax cap) and the trust fund would be fine.

Well, now we're going to get off track for a minute. I'm not wrong, it doesn't exist. You can claim you have a trust fund all you want, but if you empty it out to pay for your other obligations, you don't. I can claim to have a college fund for my child all day, but if the jar on top of the fridge is emptied out every time I go to the grocery store, I don't have one. All I have is an empty jar with a sticker that says "trust fund" on it.

But forget the semantics because your second point is the more important one. Yes, if the feds stopped raiding the cookie jar, SS could work very well. But what gives you any reason to believe they wouldn't? As of today we both recognize they haven't been faithful to the trust fund, so there's strike one. And now what are you going to do, write your Congressman? Vote for someone who "promises" to restore the trust fund? You and I have no control over what the government does with that money. There's no fixing it, all there's left to do is watch it implode and say a prayer for the people who are depending on that money. Like my parents. The people who have been duped by the SS scam are the biggest victims, at least you and me are young enough to know better and try to save for retirement another way.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:24 AM   #29
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
"If all earnings were subject to the payroll tax, but the base was retained for benefit calculations, the Social Security Trust Funds would remain solvent for the next 75 years."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/business...iminating.html


I would rather approach things from the standpoint of letting people have economic opportunity and prosperity while they're in the prime of their life, and letting individuals be responsible for determining how they will handle their stage of the life cycle at 80, 90 years old, which may include allowing nature to takes its course as it will.

You obviously prefer to shackle people in their primes, in order to string along invalids back and forth from their rocking chairs to the bathroom for an indefinite length of time at exorbitant cost, because you have an axe to grind against successful people, the fortunate, the in-crowd, the normal people, the handsome men, the 'cool kids' and so forth because you got pushed around, picked on and beat up as a kid, never were looked at by a female, never made someone laugh with a joke, weren't loved by your parents, teacher called you ugly etc., and now you hate the world and want to go parading around to even the score for losers like yourself.

But you don't have testicles and love to make out with men, so clearly we are on different philosophical plains to say the least.

Last edited by OldSkoolball#52 : 05-24-2013 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:30 AM   #30
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Default Re: Proposal to fix Social Security

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkoolball#52
I would rather approach things from the standpoint of letting people have economic opportunity and prosperity while they're in the prime of their life, and letting individuals be responsible for determining how they will handle their stage of the life cycle at 80, 90 years old, which may include allowing nature to takes its course as it will.

You obviously prefer to shackle people in their primes, in order to string along invalids back and forth from their rocking chairs to the bathroom for an indefinite length of time at exorbitant cost.

But you don't have testicles and love to make out with men, so clearly we are on different philosophical plains to say the least.

Hey its everyones favorite womens shoe salesman!!

Hows the acting career going starface? You made it big yet? Or are you still living off of the safety net provided by your daddy?

Last edited by Nanners : 05-24-2013 at 03:33 AM.
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