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Old 06-25-2013, 01:51 PM   #31
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

Theo Ratliff is perfect comparison. Lol I love the name theo!
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

I don't think Theo Ratliff is worth a #1 pick. He had a few good years, but no where worth a first pick. This draft is not top heavy, but it's deep. For this draft I would not want the #1 pick, but after that it's not bad at all.
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by senelcoolidge
I don't think Theo Ratliff is worth a #1 pick. He had a few good years, but no where worth a first pick. This draft is not top heavy, but it's deep. For this draft I would not want the #1 pick, but after that it's not bad at all.


NO PB said Noel = Hakeem Olajuwon
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:02 PM   #34
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by senelcoolidge
I don't think Theo Ratliff is worth a #1 pick. He had a few good years, but no where worth a first pick. This draft is not top heavy, but it's deep. For this draft I would not want the #1 pick, but after that it's not bad at all.

This is my opinion as well. I'd not want this top pick, but I do feel like there's a ton of depth in this draft.

I was listening to Chad Ford today ... I know, but I think he's gotten a lot more interesting and better since his Darko is a cross between Wilt Chamberlain, Pele, and Muhammad Ali days ... he said a few things that interested me.

He claims that the Cleveland doctors have, who are apparently some of the best in the league, and their leading team doc is also among the two or three best knee guys in the country, have given them the green light on Noel, and as far as they're concerned, the knees are not a reason to not take him.

Cleveland brass say they don't feel like they can get a player at one who can crack next years starting lineup, which is interesting. And if that's the case, Noel makes more sense than before, because if you truely believe you're gonna have to have a guy primarily sitting anyway, why not the guy with the most upside. I'm not sure I believe their theory, but it's what he's reporting.

They dug into Noel's advanced stats some, and he really does start to look like a better prospect than Len. He is really young. Genuinely still 18. He was realy starting to play well when he got hurt. The game Len beat him up in was his first game. His shooting numbers were every bit as good as Len's as the season went on.

They talked some about Len's teammates making him hard to grade. But also wondered about his disappearing for stretches in games. He said he actually reminds him a lot of Darko the prospect, which isn't a knock considering how highly regarded he was, but the one thing about Darko was he also had a habit of mysteriously disappearing for stretches. Also, one of the knocks on Len is something that has been a consistent translator from both college and overseas to the NBA, he's not a particularly good rebounder based on the advanced numbers, rebound rate and the like. And rebounding good or bad has pretty consistently translated.

At this point everyone pretty consistently feels the top 6 are Noel, Len, Olidipo, Porter, McLemore, and Burke, but the order is almost completely fluid. It floors me that Burke is in there. Particularly ahead of Bennett. Especially since we know flat out that there's absolutely no way Cleveland or Washington would take him.

Simmons loves Olidipo and would take him first. His logic is that if this draft is such a crapshoot at the top. If the upsides are as limited as we're saying, why roll the dice on a guy becoming Kenyon Martin even if everything goes really well, when you can take Olidipo, still get a shot at some upside, and know the floor is so high. At worst he says the guy is a better Tony Allen. And by all accounts his work ethic really is that great, where you will get the best player he can be.

They both have a few issues with Porter. They likened him to Tay Prince, but not quite as long, and probably not quite as skilled. Probably a better rebounder, but otherwise not as good in most other areas. Their issue seems to be that he doesn't have skill to hang his hat on. He's just sorta good at a lot of things. I disagree with this.

Ford also assembled this interesting concept:

Quote:
Each year I talk to a number of NBA general managers and scouts to create my NBA draft Top 100 and Big Board. But this year I decided to go one step further: to ask those same GMs and scouts to actually rate the top 50 NBA prospects.

Below is our first "Secret NBA Draft Big Board" -- the results of the ratings and rankings from our most informed sources in the league.

We asked them to predict each player's NBA career, according to two questions: How good a prospect is he? What kind of career will he have?


About half of the NBA's 30 teams participated, rating prospects on a 0-to-10 scale. A rating of 0 meant that the player "won't make the league or will have a very minimal NBA career," while a score of 10 meant he was a "top-of-the-line, elite prospect." Our respondents were asked to rate each prospect against all such NBA prospects in recent years.

We took these scores, averaged them and prorated them on a 100-point scale. This created a consensus "wisdom of the crowd" effect, the same thing that drives our ESPN Forecast panel to great success in predicting NBA outcomes. In other words, the results below (a) are reflective of the opinion of NBA decision-makers about this year's prospects and (b) have predictive value in terms of the NBA careers of these prospects.

Olidipo wound up at the top of this list, in spite of getting no tens. That's because no one felt like he'd be less than a seven, and almost everyone felt he'd be an 8/9. So the guess is no bust potential, and a quality starter to all star by all accounted for. McLemore on the other hand had a 10, and also only went as low as 7, but he got more 7s, pushing his average down to third overall. Noel finished second, mainly because one GM gave him a four, who much really have concerns over the health.
Bennett was fourth ranging 6-9. Porter fifth ranging 6-10, but obviously got a few more toward the bottom end to push him below Bennett, however he Noel and McLemore were the only players to get 10s from anyone. Len was next ranging 9-4. Burke was 9, which makes him going top 6 feel like a reach, especially since he's only fractions ahead of MCW, who probably falls into the early teens.
Just felt like an interesting exercise.


Both guys also felt like this was a rare draft with enough limitations on upside, and enough parity among prospects, to make reaching for positional fit make much more sense than it normally does, something I completely agree with.

Jeff Withey and Mohammad are both plummetting down draft boards from their respective spots a month ago. Neither of which surprise me at all, because both were among my least favorite prospects coming in. Mohammad may even fall out of lotto, while Withey is just holding onto first round status.

Simmons' draft interview videos you can find on youtube, and they've been really interesting. You can get a sense of personality even from a fifteen minute edited interview, that you know these guys have been coached up for. Having the noodle to say the right thing, even if it's not what you believe, is at least a sign that you have the noodle to do that at least. Mohammad for instance just gave off a bad vibe.

I find myself really into this draft because of it's weirdness. I don't think it's a great draft, but the depth of potential rotational players makes this feel more interesting than most to me.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

CJ McCollum's interview with Simmons and Rose was really good. Seems like a really smart player who can contribute off the bench as a combo guard right away. I question his ability to defend PGs at the next level but I like him a lot.

Oladipo seems to be a really confident kid and part of that is probably due to his work ethic and defense. He is confident in his prep and work he puts into his game and his defensive ability gives him a certain amount of fearlessness most likely.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:45 PM   #36
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

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kind of want the Sixers to suck next season because the 2014 draft is going to be loaded.

heh I was thinking the same thing
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:26 PM   #37
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

Noel is not Theo Ratliff, yeesh
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:08 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus
Noel is not Theo Ratliff, yeesh

Yeah, Noel might not even reach the level of Ratliff.
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:41 AM   #39
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
CJ McCollum's interview with Simmons and Rose was really good. Seems like a really smart player who can contribute off the bench as a combo guard right away. I question his ability to defend PGs at the next level but I like him a lot.

Oladipo seems to be a really confident kid and part of that is probably due to his work ethic and defense. He is confident in his prep and work he puts into his game and his defensive ability gives him a certain amount of fearlessness most likely.

big fan of CJ. legit long range shooter. sort of reminds me of harden, in that he can step back if defenders go under the screen or take it to the hoop a bit if they fight over. doesn't have the passing ability or craftiness of harden but there's similarities. i think he can be a major steal if he gets picked beyond the lottery. the main concern i have for him is his lateral quickness for defensive purposes but on a loaded team? this guy can blossom.

he and KD-P are the two potential steals i can see in this draft. i seriously see KD-P being the next shaun livingston. if anyone remembers how good that guy was before his injury, you already know what that means.

what do you folks think of anthony bennett? i really have a hard time seeing how his game transitions to the pros. i think he has some offensive game but i see some major defensive liabilities. he's a big that can shoot. is he a slightly better version of mehmet okur or peak rasheed wallace w/out temper problems? if it's the latter, some team is going to get a gem. doesn't have much of a post game to speak of but neither did sheed early on. don't know if he can develop but hey, this is why i think he's a big question mark. i really don't know how to peg this guy.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:53 AM   #40
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

Bennet is a tweener. Tweeners have a hard time making it in the league or being good. Not fast enough to defend SF's and not big enough for PF's.
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:52 AM   #41
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

I really like Bennett, but I agree on the tweener issues in general. I think his length may make up for it, and his strength to me really puts him more as a mismatch PF, who's length and strength will allow him to defend there adequately, more than a true tweener.

It's a fine line between too slow to defend threes, and too small to defend fours, versus too big for threes to handle you and too fast for fours to step out on you. So they're almost always really good, or total flameouts.

I feel like Rodney Rogers is a really good comp for Bennett, especially at the floor level. Although Rogers was a better player for the Clippers than most remember, then his athleticism kind of faded fast, and he became really just a stretch four as his jumper got better. So I'd say high end Rodney Rogers, with the potential to be better even. I feel like he may be the toughest guard in this draft. I do have some concern about him getting money and eating his way out of the league too. For an 18 year old who's obviously spending a ton of time playing basketball, he does seem to be carrying a little extra weight. What happens if he loses his motivation of "making it". But it's a minor concern. By all accounts his work habits are pretty good.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:56 PM   #42
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

Bennett will be fine.

We have Battier out there playing power forward in the league nowadays. Draymond Green playing power forward.
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:42 PM   #43
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

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Originally Posted by Carbine
Bennett will be fine.

We have Battier out there playing power forward in the league nowadays. Draymond Green playing power forward.



I completely agree. Bennett isn't any smaller than everyone's favorite young PF Kenneth Faried either.

I really think the league fluctuates from big to small like on a sign curve every 20 years or so. PFs in particular. I think we're on a low part of the cycle now.



I also really like McCollum, and I never considered the Harden comp, but I totally see it. A premium shooter, who while not a PG by any means, is just a really good pick and roll player. My father is a Lehigh alum, so I probably hear about and see McCollum more than most people. I feel a little burned out. And I've had serious questions about him defending and finishing. But he's a better athlete than he's being given credit for. And Harden can't defend either. If he can create offense and he's not a slug defensively, he'll be fine.
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

In no way should Burke be considered in the first tier. I believe tiny gaurds can be great at least once a generation like I Thomas, iverson, and cp3. Or you could be tiny and good if you could finish at the basket as strong as a Ty Lawson. Problem w Burke, Larkin is that they aren't any of those guys.


If your team wants a pg mcCollum is miles and miles better than Burke
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Old 06-27-2013, 08:03 PM   #45
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Default Re: NBA Draft Discussion

I'm hoping for Nerlins.. I say he's worth the gamble with such a weak draft.. C'mon Suns.. do it!!
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