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Old 06-26-2013, 01:39 PM   #106
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by Shade8780
Do y'all watch the 2nd round of the Draft. Over here it starts at 12 am and I'm not sure if I wanna stay up till 4 am watching it. I might just watch the first round.
I watch the whole thing but I'm a dork with this stuff.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:41 PM   #107
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
There are always players who pan out. I'm not saying the draft was weak, just that it was what many said it would be. There were a lot of players go could fill important roles on teams but there weren't really a ton of guys who would change your franchise. That was the consensus and that is what it was.

This draft may turn out to be the same but I still doubt there will be many all stars from this draft. Again, rig now the draft is weak because the picks are not worth much. Maybe that changes but currently it is weak, mainly because the picks are worth much now.

I just showed you double digit franchise changers from 2011, and that was only 2 years ago. Several guys in that draft could still end up being franchise changers.

I don't agree at all with what you're saying about that draft and you seem to be denying the evidence you're being presented with.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #108
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by Shade8780
Do y'all watch the 2nd round of the Draft. Over here it starts at 12 am and I'm not sure if I wanna stay up till 4 am watching it. I might just watch the first round.

I always watch the entire draft. The 2nd round is the best part because you have absolutely no idea what is going to happen. Teams will start drafting guys that even people who really follow the draft have never heard of. They're draft guys that Fran Franschilla doesn't know much about. It's fun.

Does the draft itself start at midnight there or just the 2nd round? The 2nd round only lasts like an hour or so, I thought. It goes pretty quick.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:55 PM   #109
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by fatboy11
I just showed you double digit franchise changers from 2011, and that was only 2 years ago. Several guys in that draft could still end up being franchise changers.

I don't agree at all with what you're saying about that draft and you seem to be denying the evidence you're being presented with.
Double digit franchise changers? I think we are arguing over semantics. Because Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris were on that list. Regardless, when I'm thinking about franchise changers I'm thinking about all Nba players or guys that are gonna be perennial all stars.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:03 PM   #110
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
Double digit franchise changers? I think we are arguing over semantics. Because Kemba Walker and Tobias Harris were on that list. Regardless, when I'm thinking about franchise changers I'm thinking about all Nba players or guys that are gonna be perennial all stars.

Did Kawhi Leonard change the Spurs for the better?

I think you need to define the terms you throw out a little better, or at least just stick to a literal definition. People can read your mind when you say "franchiser changer" but really mean something else like "elite player" or "top NBA player".

Chandler Parsons isn't an All-NBA player but he most certainly changed the Rockets franchise is a huge way. Sorry for assuming you meant to use that term the way it should be used.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:12 PM   #111
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by fatboy11
Did Kawhi Leonard change the Spurs for the better?

I think you need to define the terms you throw out a little better, or at least just stick to a literal definition. People can read your mind when you say "franchiser changer" but really mean something else like "elite player" or "top NBA player".

Chandler Parsons isn't an All-NBA player but he most certainly changed the Rockets franchise is a huge way. Sorry for assuming you meant to use that term the way it should be used.

By your interpretation of the term is so broad that it would mean basically nothing in this context. The direction of bobcats franchise didn't change with Kemba walker.

But, I could be precise but I lack the time or motivation. Honestly, I think I have out grown this board. Too argumentative and very little substance or knowledge put forth. I'm out.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:21 PM   #112
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
By your interpretation of the term is so broad that it would mean basically nothing in this context. The direction of bobcats franchise didn't change with Kemba walker.

But, I could be precise but I lack the time or motivation. Honestly, I think I have out grown this board. Too argumentative and very little substance or knowledge put forth. I'm out.

Kemba Walker is but one piece to a puzzle that isn't near completion in Charlotte. How many games do you think they win without him? Do you think he's only averaging the stats he is (17.7 PPG, 5.7 APG, 2 SPG) because he's on a bad team? He hasn't changed their arc because they're soooo bad. No one can do it by themselves. But even still, they won 14 more games this season than they did the year before.

Your complaint about this board is ironic. It's definitely true, but I was thinking the same thing about you. It's also comical to say it takes time to be precise.

But, bye, I guess.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:50 PM   #113
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
1. Many analysts are saying this is a historically weak draft. You disagree and that is fine. It is just not logically consistent with you reliance on those same experts opinions on Noel. why do you trust those guys on Noel but only your gut on the draft as a whole. Just doesn't hold up logically. Seems like you are trusting your own arbitrary feelings about the overall strength of this draft a little too much,
I don't know who we're talking about, but generally the guys who are really high on this draft are also the people who think Noel could be a really special player. Those two thoughts sort of go hand-in-hand, because a draft's worth a lot of times is measured by how good it is at the very top, whether that's a good way to judge it or not (I don't think it is particularly).

Put it like this... In the last couple years, I've started to put a good amount of stock in analytics. That isn't all I use to gauge a draft. I still watch the tape and use the eye test as my first barometer, but I do favor analytics over a general "feeling" that people have, which a lot of times is just based on things they're hearing from Chad Ford or other big wigs. I'm not saying that's the case with you, just in general. And, analytics say this is a good draft, not a bad one.

I never thought the 2011 was weak and it was getting the "historically weak" rap, as well. People were saying Kyrie wouldn't be a Top 10 pick in the next year's draft. I actually heard that from quite a few people.

And, let's not get it twisted... So far, that has been a very good draft. When you can look back and list 10 guys who have already had a moderate to significant impact in this league and we are just two years out? That is a draft on track to be very successful. There may be and probably will be guys that came out of that draft that we haven't even considered being game-changers who will turn out to be later in their careers. That happens in almost every draft and I doubt 2011 will be different.

Kyrie Irving
Kawhi Leonard
Kenneth Faried
Tristan Thompson
Jonas Valancunias
Nikola Vucevic
Enes Kanter
Jimmy Butler
Iman Shumpert
Chandler Parsons
Tobias Harris
Kemba Walker
Klay Thompson
Derrick Williams
Brandon Knight
Isaiah Thomas
Markieff Morris

There are 15 guys right there off the top of my head that have either served as full-time starters or have shown flashes of being impact players. And, again... We're just two years out.

For all we know, Bismack Biyombo could end up being the next Ben Wallace.

With the potential here and the guys who have yet to break out but will, just like every draft has guys not NBA ready two years into their NBA careers, I don't see any way we look back on that draft and say it's "historically weak," the way it was being billed.

And, we already know the first part of the argument about that draft -- that it had absolutely no player in it worth a No. 1 pick in other drafts -- was total bunk. Even if Kyrie gets injured tomorrow and never plays again (god forbid), he has already shown the talent and skill to warrant being in consideration for the No. 1 pick in almost any other draft ever. In fact, a lot of people would argue, so far, he has been the best No. 1 pick in some time. Guy made an All-Star game already. Who was calling that in 2011?

The whole basis for the "weak draft" stuff in 2011 was that it didn't have a big time prospect at the top.

I'm just saying... We've been through this song and dance about "historically weak" drafts before. It's all rhetoric. Your point about picks not having value I also disagree with. The Cavs are asking for a boatload to even enter into discussions about trading out of No. 1. Despite the many rumors circulating around, it's pretty clear that they feel that pick is damn valuable.

And so do I.

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:56 PM   #114
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by fatboy11
Sorry for assuming you meant to use that term the way it should be used.

no need to be a douche over a simple misunderstanding

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Old 06-26-2013, 02:57 PM   #115
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

Nahh whole draft starts at 12 :/
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:01 PM   #116
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by chips93
no need to be a douche over a simple misunderstanding


Boneheads bring out the douche in me.

I think logical discussion is more important than being nice. It's just the internet. It's not like I'm talking to my mom or anything. I'm more offended by short-sightedness and lack of insight than I am by someone just being rude.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:01 PM   #117
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by Shade8780
Nahh whole draft starts at 12 :/

Yeah, that sucks then.
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #118
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

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Originally Posted by fatboy11
Couple of hits?

Kyrie Irving is an All-Star caliber guard right now. Tristian Thompson averaged a double double this year. Klay Thompson is an elite shooter and already one of the top shooters in the league. Kawhi Leonard is a great two-way player that was a big part of the Spurs almost winning a title. Kemba Walker is a very good guard. Nik Vucecic averaged a double double. Tobias Harris started producing nicely once he was put in a better situation. Kenneth Faried nearly averaged a double double. Jimmy Butler is becoming an elite defender and coming into his own on offense. Reggie Jackson emerged as a valuable piece for OKC. Iman Shumpert was playing great for the Knicks before he blew his knee out. Chandler Parsons had a great year.

There were about 10 hits in that draft. 10 guys really making an impact on their team.
Yeah, we are on the same page. I forgot about Jackson. He has some promise. Let's put it like this... The 2012 draft was hugely hyped as a great draft, both at the top and in terms of depth.

It's too early for both drafts to do a head-to-head comparison, but looking at the respective All-Rookie teams...

2011 First Team
Kyrie Irving +
Ricky Rubio*
Kenneth Faried
Klay Thompson
Iman Shumpert
Kawhi Leonard


2012 First Team
Damian Lillard +
Brad Beal
Anthony Davis
Dion Waiters
Harrison Barnes

+ Rookie of the Year
* Not in said draft

Does last year's first team really look head and shoulders better than the 2011 first team? Or better at all?
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:16 PM   #119
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

ill probably watch to the mid second round, when the cavs will have used all of their picks
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:24 PM   #120
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Default Re: Official 2013 NBA Draft Thread - June 27, 2013, 7:00 PM EDT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade8780
Do y'all watch the 2nd round of the Draft. Over here it starts at 12 am and I'm not sure if I wanna stay up till 4 am watching it. I might just watch the first round.

yeah I watch the whole thing. It's only once a year anyways.
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