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Old 06-23-2013, 08:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
I don't get why he needs to be on the run, governments work for the people, they are people's employees, the fact they become this private club for half of dozen people, that act like they own what they have and create this obscure agencies that respond to no one, and people not only are ok with it, but label traitor when someone expose their fascist plans it's mind boggling, i guess as long there's fried chicken...

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Old 06-24-2013, 12:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Snowden now "underground" as he failed to show up for his booked Moscow-Havana flight.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...-live-coverage


Not boarding a plane that has to move through US territory is probably a good move. I doubt the US would do anything, but better safe than sorry. If he has the support of some foreign goverment he should be able to do better than a public Aeroflot flight.

I'm not sure about Snowden now associating himself with Wikileaks though. I'm sure he appreciates the legal and financial help, but Assange has been steadily hacking away at Wikileaks' credibility.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Whatever happens from here I am grateful to him for exposing this government program of spying on us.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

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Originally Posted by LJJ
but Assange has been steadily hacking away at Wikileaks' credibility.

the mainstream media has been slowly hacking away at wikileaks credibility.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
the mainstream media has been slowly hacking away at wikileaks credibility.

True, but Assange isn't too shy about providing them with ammunition. He either needs to go ahead and face those flimsy rape charges, or distance himself from Wikileaks.
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Old 06-24-2013, 01:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
True, but Assange isn't too shy about providing them with ammunition. He either needs to go ahead and face those flimsy rape charges, or distance himself from Wikileaks.

disagree. those "flimsy rape charges" are simply intended to get him out in the open so he can be captured by swedish/uk officials and extradited to the US. i think he should stay inside the ecuador embassy and keep doing what he is doing.
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Old 06-24-2013, 07:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
disagree. those "flimsy rape charges" are simply intended to get him out in the open so he can be captured by swedish/uk officials and extradited to the US. i think he should stay inside the ecuador embassy and keep doing what he is doing.

I'm pretty sure he said he would face those charges if he was assured he wouldn't be extradited.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:14 PM   #23
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue&Orange
I don't get why he needs to be on the run, governments work for the people, they are people's employees, the fact they become this private club for half of dozen people, that act like they own what they have and create this obscure agencies that respond to no one, and people not only are ok with it, but label traitor when someone expose their fascist plans it's mind boggling, i guess as long there's fried chicken...

Did you say fried chicken? Dude, I am starving!!!...pass that shit over.

Mmmmmmmm........delcious!!!....I didn't read the rest of your post....probably nothing important.







But seriously, it is mindblowing someone who should be labeled a hero, is considered a traitor.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:25 PM   #24
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by bagelred
But seriously, it is mindblowing someone who should be labeled a hero, is considered a traitor.

When Cheney leaked Valarie Plames identity, that was just as much an act of espionage as the Snowden leak. It is public knowledge that Cheney is guilty of espionage, but he will never be charged for it (or war crimes, or any of the other shit he got away with).

The most mind boggling irony in the universe occured when Cheney called Snowden a traitor the other day. The reality is that Cheney and his merry band of neocons are probably the biggest traitors our country has ever witnessed.

Last edited by Nanners : 06-24-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanners
disagree. those "flimsy rape charges" are simply intended to get him out in the open so he can be captured by swedish/uk officials and extradited to the US. i think he should stay inside the ecuador embassy and keep doing what he is doing.

I'm pretty sure he said he would face those charges if he was assured he wouldn't be extradited.

Please, he knows the Swedish government cannot legally promise him immunity to extradition. First of all that would run counter to the principle of trias politica, secondly and more importantly: how can you promise someone immunity before you know what the alledged crime is?

The entire premise is false. It would be against European and Swedish law to extradite Assange to the US for anything related to Wikileaks. Assange's assertion is that if the USA puts on the pressure the UK and Sweden will simply ignore their laws and extradite him anyway, yet the only reason he isn't in custody right now is because the UK is following their laws.

If the UK or Sweden were willing to ignore their laws to placate the US, why didn't they simply extradite him when he was in the UK's custody? They could have send him on a plane right then and there, instead they released him on bail. Why don't they just come and pick him up at the Ecuadorian embassy? Sure, that would be against certain Vienna Convetions, but Assange's entire argument is based around the fact that Sweden and the UK would be willing to break laws and conventions to extradite him to the US. Or if Assange says he'll only come if they guarantee they won't extradite him, why not guarantee and ship him out anyway? Sweden would have no problem throwing their human rights laws out of the window, but lying is where they draw the line?

It's essentially a conspiracy theory. And even if there was truth to the conspiracy theory, it's still hurting Wikileaks' reputation and credibility right now.
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJJ
Please, he knows the Swedish government cannot legally promise him immunity to extradition. First of all that would run counter to the principle of trias politica, secondly and more importantly: how can you promise someone immunity before you know what the alledged crime is?

The entire premise is false. It would be against European and Swedish law to extradite Assange to the US for anything related to Wikileaks. Assange's assertion is that if the USA puts on the pressure the UK and Sweden will simply ignore their laws and extradite him anyway, yet the only reason he isn't in custody right now is because the UK is following their laws.

There is an absolutely enormous difference between UK officials arresting and extraditing Assange while he is walking down a public street, and arresting and extraditing him while he is hiding inside a foreign countries embassy.

The fact that the UK is currently "following their laws" (following international laws really) by respecting the sovereign territory of Ecuador cannot be used as evidence that they will continue to follow their laws by not extraditing Assange when he ventures out into the open.

Why didnt they extradite him when he was in UK custody earlier? I dont know, but I do know that the fact they did not extradite him earlier does not preclude them from extraditing him in the future.

Last edited by Nanners : 06-24-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:04 PM   #27
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

interesting article on cnn.com:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/25/op...rticle_sidebar

excerpts:

Quote:
Like too many American politicians, Kerry seems to believe "the law" is what the White House counsel and U.S. Justice Department deem it to be on any given day, and that this made-in-America "law" applies inexorably to every country and every corner of the world.
Wrong, John. It's like invading somebody else's country without a U.N. Security Council resolution, or entering a home without a warrant. Not advisable, unless you relish hand-to-hand combat and endless sarcasm.
Quote:
Russia says it feels "threatened" by U.S. criticism. This is as close as Sergei Lavrov, Moscow's dour foreign minister, has ever got to making a joke. If Putin and pals can stiff Obama on Syria and Iran, they can certainly "lift" a tale-teller and endure a cyber-tiff or two. These are tears of laughter, not pain
Quote:
L'affaire Snowden has provided a glorious field day for all those "surrender monkey Commie pinko crypto-Marxist long-haired G8-loathing eco-friendly global-warming anti-free market anti-capitalist anti-McDonald's (anti-stereotype)" anti-Americans who just love to hate the "Land of the Free."
It's surprising how many of them there are these days.
Perhaps it has something to do with Guantanamo. For sure, the Beijing Politburo has no problem with detaining people indefinitely without charge. After all, they've been doing it for years. But it comes hard from a global superpower that is constantly lecturing China and everybody else about the inviolability of human rights.
Perhaps it's a Bradley Manning thing. There's a lot of sympathy out there for the pint-sized soldier who dared to share the State Department's incredibly tedious cables, then got treated worse than a mass murderer.
Quote:
Extra-judicial assassination, drones, killer robots, extraordinary rendition, black ops, wet ops, psy-ops, silly ops... The world is a bit tired of all this American posturing, grandstanding, and self-serving banditry.
So now it's cyber-ops, but wholly unofficial, courtesy Mr E. Snowden. It would hard to accept it is real, if you didn't suspect it was virtual. Rather than decry it, many applaud it.
The White House is furious at the non-cooperation it has received. But has it occurred to them that maybe not just the Russians and the Chinese, but those soft, liberal Europeans and all the other neutrals also don't like the idea of being spied on by an out-of-control transnational agency beyond the reach of the law, any law, anywhere?
Obama and Kerry can talk about security until they lose signal. Right now, the rest of the world is talking sovereignty, privacy and individual rights. And enjoying the moment when the big guy takes a fall.

some heavy US-bashing
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:10 AM   #28
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

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Originally Posted by gigantes
guess he's far too explosive for either china or russia to try squirreling away.

assuming china has sufficient leverage in HK, it does seem like they're playing with fire letting him walk. their banking system is *extremely* fragile from what i've read, and i'm not sure they really want to destabilise their #1 trading partner in any way, shape or form. *shrug*

thank god i don't follow politics.

LOL, do you know how many millionaires and even billionaires greatly, even desperately depend on China's cooperation with the US to thrive in the manner in which they currently do? We need China more than they need us, not the other way around.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

the united states was once a great country.

too bad our kids and grand kids will never experience that feeling.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:40 AM   #30
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Default Re: NSA whistleblower Snowden arrives in Moscow

Now would be the time for Snowden to hop a flight, what with all the attention on the Supreme Court, but I doubt he's going anywhere anytime soon. He's in a transit terminal (supposedly) and his passport has been revoked. So he has to wait for any country that wants to take him to provide the appropriate paperwork. If you think our government works slowly...
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